5.56 or 223 rem
What is the difference in the headspace gages for the 5.56x45 and the remington 223? I have been told there is a difference. Thanks.
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Here we go again. 0 -
This subject has been discussed many times, on this and every other gun forum on the net.
GOOGLE is your friend! Use the search term "5.56 X .223", or something similar. Sit down and start reading. Make sure you have plenty of free time. As there are probably thousands of pages on the net. Concerning the 223 versus 5.56 controversy.0 -
Thank you. The question came up when an AR closed on a 223 rem. no-go gage. When I contacted the Manufacturer, I was told to use a military 5.56 gage set. I was not aware that the differences were that great.
Thanks again and have a great week.0 -
There is also the question of gauge technique.
You don't just drop the headspace gauge in the chamber and slam the bolt on it like it was a live round.0 -
With a properly headspaced AR-15, the head spacing is done after/when the barrel extension is installed, and the barrel assembly is not installed into the upper receiver. Just 4 things are used...the headspace gauge of proper chambering, the barrel, barrel extension, and the bold(not the entire bolt/bolt carrier assembly.
As has been said, it is most likely for someone with the know how, to perform.
Best0 -
Gun magazines from the 1930's and later constantly had articles and questions about headspace.
Nearly 100 years later it is still misunderstood by the majority of shooters.
The actual "headspace" as compared to SAAMI or NATO spec is irrelevant; what IS relevant is the headspace relationship between the actual chamber and the actual cartridge being fired.
The cartridge case stretch upon firing is the concern. Too much stretch means a ruptured case.
Regardless of what the headspace gage fit is, if the actual cartridge is short there may be a problem, or if too long, it may not chamber fully.
Until people start gaging their ammo I kinda chuckle about the chamber headspace concerns.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MG1890
Gun magazines from the 1930's and later constantly had articles and questions about headspace.
Nearly 100 years later it is still misunderstood by the majority of shooters.
The actual "headspace" as compared to SAAMI or NATO spec is irrelevant; what IS relevant is the headspace relationship between the actual chamber and the actual cartridge being fired.
The cartridge case stretch upon firing is the concern. Too much stretch means a ruptured case.
Regardless of what the headspace gage fit is, if the actual cartridge is short there may be a problem, or if too long, it may not chamber fully.
Until people start gaging their ammo I kinda chuckle about the chamber headspace concerns.
Pure BS
So if I small base full length size a .223, I need a different chamber size compared to a turned, neck sized only, matchgrade loaded shell??
Chambers {all most all bottle necks} are spec'ed from a datum line.0 -
babun
Chamber reamers and headspace gauges are not a fool-proof way to avoid case stretching or head seperations. They assume that factory ammunition will be used or that reloads maintain the proper case dimensions. Obviously, if you abuse your brass by pushing shouders back or otherwise altering the correct dimensions, you are asking for trouble. Gauging your cartridges is a good idea for handloads, but you should not have to gauge factory cartridges. Your best gauge is the chamber itself, IMHO.
Ray0 -
What I mean to infer is that you are looking at it "backwards". From a handloaders point of view, that may be good.
Headspace gauges are very necessary, A standard spec size is a needed item.
How many bolt guns, for just an example, have set back lugs from years of use. The "chamber" hasn't got bigger, the bolt got moved back or the lock up grooves are worn. Has nothing to do with the size of the shell.0 -
quote:Originally posted by babun
What I mean to infer is that you are looking at it "backwards". From a handloaders point of view, that may be good.
Headspace gauges are very necessary, A standard spec size is a needed item.
How many bolt guns, for just an example, have set back lugs from years of use. The "chamber" hasn't got bigger, the bolt got moved back or the lock up grooves are worn. Has nothing to do with the size of the shell.
Exactly. Headspace go / no gauges are to check the chamber, but the lock up.
I always gauge a vintage rifle prior to shooting. The last thing you want to have happen is a Johnson or even a 1903 bolt letting go with your face a couple of inches behind it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by babun
quote:Originally posted by MG1890
Gun magazines from the 1930's and later constantly had articles and questions about headspace.
Nearly 100 years later it is still misunderstood by the majority of shooters.
The actual "headspace" as compared to SAAMI or NATO spec is irrelevant; what IS relevant is the headspace relationship between the actual chamber and the actual cartridge being fired.
The cartridge case stretch upon firing is the concern. Too much stretch means a ruptured case.
Regardless of what the headspace gage fit is, if the actual cartridge is short there may be a problem, or if too long, it may not chamber fully.
Until people start gaging their ammo I kinda chuckle about the chamber headspace concerns.
Pure BS
So if I small base full length size a .223, I need a different chamber size compared to a turned, neck sized only, matchgrade loaded shell??
Chambers {all most all bottle necks} are spec'ed from a datum line.
Yes. Your neck turned cartridge is fitted to a different chamber than a small base full length required cartridge requires.
Bottom line: .030" of shoulder clearance, whether from a "too deep" chamber OR from a short cartridge, is the exact same thing. Very few people gage cartridges, but get all wound up about a couple thousandths issue with a headspace gage.
So, no BS.
And your example of rifles with lug setback only serves to demonstrate the fact that exact headspace is not that critical.0
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