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Question re: entry in my C&R Record Book

the yooper
Several years ago I bought a pre-64 Model 70 .243 using my C&R license and dutifully entered it into my Dealers Firearms Record Book. A year or so later, I bought a pre-64 barrel in .270 and had the rifle re-barreled. My record book shows SN #XXXXX logged as a .243 while in reality it's now a .270. Do I somehow change the entry in the log? While not planned now, what do I do if/when I sell or trade it? I checked the BATF C&R regs and FAQ's but found nothing about modifying a previously owned C&R firearm. Any thoughts? I realize it's a moot question unless I get audited, but I also don't want problems should that happen.
Thanks
yooper
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • Spider7115
    Technically, it's no longer C&R eligible because it's not in the original caliber. The serial number belongs to a .243, not a .270.
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  • nmyers
    The "acquisitions" section describes the gun as you acquired it. You don't need to alter it to show any modifications. It is not uncommon for folks to modify a C&R, sometimes to the point that it is no longer a C&R (not the case here).

    Just accurately complete the "disposition" section if & when you get rid of it.

    Don't worry about it.

    Neal

    EDIT: I'm not sure that I agree with Spider; I believe that Winchester could have made it in .270, so it is still substantially original. Now, if you had installed a 12 ga shotgun barrel, that would have been a different story.....

    EDIT 2: There has never been a requirement that a C&R be identical to its original configuration, or that all components must be > 50 years old. After reading ATF regulations, if YOU do not believe that your gun still qualifies as a C&R, you should get a determination letter from ATF.
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    The "acquisitions" section describes the gun as you acquired it. You don't need to alter it to show any modifications. It is not uncommon for folks to modify a C&R, sometimes to the point that it is no longer a C&R (not the case here).

    Just accurately complete the "disposition" section if & when you get rid of it.

    Don't worry about it.

    Neal

    EDIT: I'm not sure that I agree with Spider; I believe that Winchester could have made it in .270, so it is still substantially original. Now, if you had installed a 12 ga shotgun barrel, that would have been a different story.....

    I agree it's a gray area but the law says "original configuration". Changing calibers is not the original configuration of that particular rifle but I wouldn't worry about it, either.
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  • the yooper
    The barrel is the same make and model, just 2 years older (rifle 1963, barrel 1961). Unless you pull the stock and check the barrel date you'd never know it wasn't original.
    yooper
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  • slumlord44
    You can modify a C&R any way you want after you acquire it. Depending on the modification it may or may not be a C&R after you modify it. Changing the barrel to a caliber that was available at the time should not alter the C&R status. The serial # on the frame is the one that goes with the gun. Lots of C&R's out there with mis matched serial #'s. The military guns often were arsenal rebuilt with mis matched parts. Put a plastic stock on it or a bull barrel in a caliber not available at the time and it gets questionable. I would assume that if you ever modified a C&R to the extent that it was no longer a C&R you would still just log it out when you sell it. Using the C&R to buy a modified gun would be a problem. The C&R really does not enter into it when you sell it unless you sell to another C&R holder, then it would be his problem to make the determination.
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  • the yooper
    If I were to put it up on auction, could I legitimately offer it as a "C&R eligible rifle" and sell it to a C&R holder? I know that the barrel has been changed, but it IS a configuration the manufacturer offered at the time and all components are 50+ years old.
    yooper
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  • slumlord44
    I would say yes. Should still qualify. From the conversations I have had with several BATF people at various gun shows over the years, they would not have a clue one way or the other.
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  • rossowmn
    quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
    From the conversations I have had with several BATF people at various gun shows over the years, they would not have a clue one way or the other.

    Your comment made me smile. I was at the Tulsa show several years ago, and BATF had a table at the show. I asked two BATF agents at the same table, though not at the same time, a C&R-related question that seemed pretty simple. I got two totally contradictory answers. To this day I don't know what is correct.[:(]
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  • Rocklobster
    From ATF.gov regarding Curio and Relic classification: 27 CFR 478.11 reads

    To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

    1. Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or

    2. Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or

    3. Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
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