5.56 ammo in a Mini 14 223
I have been told firing 5.56 in a Mini 14 marked for .223 will cause damage.Is this info correct? Thankyou
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No its not, you can fire 5.56 in a Mini 14. A catastrophic failure is not likely to happen shooting 5.56 in any .223. Its just the 5.56 operates at a slightly higher pressure. It is just not a recommended diet that's all. But all Mini 14's can handle 5.56 with no problems. 0 -
My brother has been shooting 5.56 in his mini for 30 years. It ain't missed a beat yet. 0 -
Thankyou folks. I believe I will not take this gun store employee's advice in the future. 0 -
From their manual..
http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/mini.pdf
WARNING - AMMUNITION
AMMUNITION
The
RUGER
r
MINI-14
r
RANCH RIFLES
are offered in two calibers: the
.223 Remington (5.56mm) cartridge and the 6.8mm Remington SPC cartridge.
The Target Model uses .223 Remington cartridges
only
I haven't handled the Target Model, but they're probably clearly marked with this caution..0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
From their manual..
http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/mini.pdf
WARNING - AMMUNITION
AMMUNITION
The
RUGER
r
MINI-14
r
RANCH RIFLES
are offered in two calibers: the
.223 Remington (5.56mm) cartridge and the 6.8mm Remington SPC cartridge.
The Target Model uses .223 Remington cartridges
only
I haven't handled the Target Model, but they're probably clearly marked with this caution..
This is just their lawyers blowing smoke. They also tell you not to shoot reloaded ammo. All their doing is covering their fannies, in case of anything going sideways.
What "T"'s me off is all the Philadelphia lawyers on the net, getting hold of this. Scaring all the newbies. Making them believe their guns are going to self destruct if they shoot 5.56 in a .223.0 -
Rufe~
I think the use of .223 Remington in the Target Model is for accuracy concerns.. They must have tightened up the leade.. Ruger has always bragged that the Mini-14 can digest Military 5.56 and Commercial .223 Remington just fine..0 -
When all else fails, read the manual. Ranch rifle, 5.56 or .223. TARGET model, .223 only. Tighter chamber, yes, leade is shortened for accuracy. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by armilite
No its not, you can fire 5.56 in a Mini 14. A catastrophic failure is not likely to happen shooting 5.56 in any .223. Its just the 5.56 operates at a slightly higher pressure. It is just not a recommended diet that's all. But all Mini 14's can handle 5.56 with no problems.
Are you serious??? If you stuff a 77grain SMK, in a 223 chamber, the bullet will be engaged in the rifling, dangerously spiking pressures? Yes, you have a lot of posts, but need to think before you put that stuff out there.
This topic has been covered many times on this forum. Search is your friend. The 223 Remington has a shorter leade in the chamber throat than does the 5.56x45, which was designed for long bullets, up to 80 grain. The 223, can realistically hand le up to 60 grainers, combined to the short throat, and slow twist.
If your Mini-14 is marked 223, it is marked that for a reason, and that is because that is what the chamber is. In most all firearm safety books, and classes, one of the most prominant rules, is to make sure your ammunition, matches what is marked on your firearm.
Best
EDIT 1
Just for a little more information, all commercially chambered rifles, are chambered to a SAAMI specified chamber configuration. That means for 223 Remington, there is only ONE SAAMI chamber design for that round. There is only ONE SAAMI specified chamber design for the 5.56 NATO. Manufacturers do not take and shorten a leade for accuracy, or lengthen it for heavier bullets. That is not saying a personal gunsmith, or custom rifle builder cannot make a chamber reamer to suit their needs.
To compound this there are different common chambers for the 5.56/223, such as the Wylde, which is a tight 5.56, with a lengthened forcing cone.
Here is a thread from a few years back, where Nononsense explains the chambers.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=164805&SearchTerms=wylde,chamber
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by tommy45autos
I have been told firing 5.56 in a Mini 14 marked for .223 will cause damage.Is this info correct? Thankyou
Not exactly.
Its probably safer to say that under certain circumstances firing CERTAIN 5.56 ammo through CERTAIN Ruger mini 14 guns could potentially cause damage to the gun. Ruger specifically advises not to fire 5.56 ammo through its newer TARGET variant of these guns, presumably due to a tighter "match" type chamber in that variant.
The reasons for the potential injury are listed in the posts above. In a nutshell, 5.56 chamber specs are a little different. In particular the 5.56 leaves a little more space between the chamber and rifling to allow for use of longer (heavier) bullets. IIRC, headspace spec is also a little more generous for the NATO round, allowing for a little extra reliability with dirty chambers or out-of-spec ammo. Again, as mentioned, less generous chamber dimensions with the .223 chamber make it easier/faster to develop overpressure situations.
Back on your specific question, there are two issues muddying the waters a bit, and I don't think either has really been addressed above.
First one is that while its perfectly safe to fire 5.56 ammo through the older models of this gun, and also the current RANCH and TACTICAL versions of the mini-14, its only been really in the last few years that Ruger has actually labelled the guns as such.
So there are a lot of older Ruger guns out there labelled "223" on the barrel that empirically ARE perfectly safe to fire 5.56 through. Basically, unless the gun is a target model it should be safe with zero issues. If you're not sure, you can contact Ruger with the serial number of the gun and they will tell you whether or not its safe to use 5.56.
Next issue is that just because there is the POTENTIAL for 5.56s to cause a dangerous pressure spike, that doesn't mean that this is what usually happens or that any use of any 5.56 will necessarily damage a gun. Empirically speaking, people do fire 5.56 ammo through .223 labelled guns (not just Rugers) all the time, and overpressure incidents are relatively rare.
How safe/unsafe this is comes down to the specs of the gun in question as well as the exact load in question. According to Armalite, its had millions of rounds of military type 5.56 ammo fired through its .223 (SAAMI) chamber guns without any issue at all, and they state that they think its fine to use STANDARD (and by that I assume they mean 55 or 62 grain military type) 5.56 ammo in their SAAMI chambered guns. Here is the complete explanation, from the manufacturer and I think its pretty good:
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech Notes\TECH NOTE 74 5.56 vs 223 vs Wylde 090817 Rev 0.pdf
I think the real issue here is that you have quite a bit less margin for safety/error using 5.56 in .223 chamber guns. Longer than normal bullets, out of spec cartridges/loads, slightly hotter than normal loads (eg from handloading), etc and you will run into pressure issues much faster with tighter .223 chambers.
As a secondary issue, even if it doesn't generate unsafe firing conditions, I think 5.56 ammo can potentially erode a .223 chambered guns throat faster, reducing its accuracy potential. My guess is that this is most of the "real" reason Ruger says not to use 5.56 in its .223 guns. . .its not that you'll "blow up" the gun, but rather that you'll turn your "match" gun into a "ranch" gun.
Responding to above: Yes, there is only one SAAMI chamber spec for .223 and there is only one for 5.56. But gun makers don't have to only use SAAMI approved chambers and as you point out some don't (eg there are commercially manufactured guns with Wylde chambers). Also, gun makers can (and do) use their latitude in labelling their guns. Just because a gun is labelled ".223" doesn't mean that it necessary has a SAAMI .223 spec chamber. . .empirically, some of these don't. Bottom line, as above, whether or not its safe to use military type ammo in a .223 labelled gun comes down to specs of the round in question and the gun in question. In most cases this will be perfectly safe, and won't hurt the gun or anything else. There may be individual circumstances where this isn't true, but these are more the exception than the rule.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
quote:Originally posted by armilite
No its not, you can fire 5.56 in a Mini 14. A catastrophic failure is not likely to happen shooting 5.56 in any .223. Its just the 5.56 operates at a slightly higher pressure. It is just not a recommended diet that's all. But all Mini 14's can handle 5.56 with no problems.
Are you serious??? If you stuff a 77grain SMK, in a 223 chamber, the bullet will be engaged in the rifling, dangerously spiking pressures? Yes, you have a lot of posts, but need to think before you put that stuff out there.
This topic has been covered many times on this forum. Search is your friend. The 223 Remington has a shorter leade in the chamber throat than does the 5.56x45, which was designed for long bullets, up to 80 grain. The 223, can realistically hand le up to 60 grainers, combined to the short throat, and slow twist.
If your Mini-14 is marked 223, it is marked that for a reason, and that is because that is what the chamber is. In most all firearm safety books, and classes, one of the most prominant rules, is to make sure your ammunition, matches what is marked on your firearm.
Best
EDIT 1
Just for a little more information, all commercially chambered rifles, are chambered to a SAAMI specified chamber configuration. That means for 223 Remington, there is only ONE SAAMI chamber design for that round. There is only ONE SAAMI specified chamber design for the 5.56 NATO. Manufacturers do not take and shorten a leade for accuracy, or lengthen it for heavier bullets. That is not saying a personal gunsmith, or custom rifle builder cannot make a chamber reamer to suit their needs.
To compound this there are different common chambers for the 5.56/223, such as the Wylde, which is a tight 5.56, with a lengthened forcing cone.
Here is a thread from a few years back, where Nononsense explains the chambers.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=164805&SearchTerms=wylde,chamber
Best
Really whose talking about 77 grain SMK round in anything. I'm pretty sure the original poster is referring to run of the mill military ammo. I'm sure I could come up with some concoction of my own that would do the 77SMK round one better. I hardly doubt the poster even knows what a 77SMK round is.0 -
my LGS smith said he had fired 1000s of 5.56 in his Mini FWIW..i asked him the same ? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by armilite
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
quote:Originally posted by armilite
No its not, you can fire 5.56 in a Mini 14. A catastrophic failure is not likely to happen shooting 5.56 in any .223. Its just the 5.56 operates at a slightly higher pressure. It is just not a recommended diet that's all. But all Mini 14's can handle 5.56 with no problems.
Are you serious??? If you stuff a 77grain SMK, in a 223 chamber, the bullet will be engaged in the rifling, dangerously spiking pressures? Yes, you have a lot of posts, but need to think before you put that stuff out there.
This topic has been covered many times on this forum. Search is your friend. The 223 Remington has a shorter leade in the chamber throat than does the 5.56x45, which was designed for long bullets, up to 80 grain. The 223, can realistically hand le up to 60 grainers, combined to the short throat, and slow twist.
If your Mini-14 is marked 223, it is marked that for a reason, and that is because that is what the chamber is. In most all firearm safety books, and classes, one of the most prominant rules, is to make sure your ammunition, matches what is marked on your firearm.
Best
EDIT 1
Just for a little more information, all commercially chambered rifles, are chambered to a SAAMI specified chamber configuration. That means for 223 Remington, there is only ONE SAAMI chamber design for that round. There is only ONE SAAMI specified chamber design for the 5.56 NATO. Manufacturers do not take and shorten a leade for accuracy, or lengthen it for heavier bullets. That is not saying a personal gunsmith, or custom rifle builder cannot make a chamber reamer to suit their needs.
To compound this there are different common chambers for the 5.56/223, such as the Wylde, which is a tight 5.56, with a lengthened forcing cone.
Here is a thread from a few years back, where Nononsense explains the chambers.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=164805&SearchTerms=wylde,chamber
Best
Really whose talking about 77 grain SMK round in anything. I'm pretty sure the original poster is referring to run of the mill military ammo. I'm sure I could come up with some concoction of my own that would do the 77SMK round one better. I hardly doubt the poster even knows what a 77SMK round is.
Fact of the matter is, it is NOT SAFE to put ALL, 5.56 NATO rounds into any 223 chamber. It is imperative to know what you have for a chamber, ammunition, and know what will cause a catastrophic failure. Most run of the mill 55 grain stuff will be fine, but get to the longer service rifle competition loads, and the game changes. Just because it is not your face next to the action or barrel, does not give any one the right to play poker with someone elses chips.
Best0
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