TulAmmo in SKS
I've got a 1951 manufactured SKS that I had modified with a spring and new firing pin to prevent slam fires. Normally shoot my own hand loads, Reloader 7 and 123 grain bullets, with great results. Bought some 7.62x39 TulAmmo at Wal-Mart recently and took it to the range with my SKS. Seemed to shoot OK for about ten rounds but then squeezed the trigger and "click". No firing pin indentation. Tried again. "Click" again. Unloaded and took it home to find I had to wrench the firing pin out. It was burred like it had been fired with a very hot load and the spring was mashed and broken. Had to fish the parts out of the bolt with a paper clip. Only thing I can think of is an out of spec round. Has anyone had a similar experience with TulAmmo? Or with any SKS for that matter? Tula made ammo ought to be good in a Tula made rifle.
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I have shoot arounf 700rds. of Tula ammo in my SKS and AK47 and never had any problems. 0 -
I've shot many K's and no problem, I'd say 99.999999% fired fine. [;)] Sometimes firing pins and springs get worn out from use which is normal for anything mechanical, maybe it'd just a coincidence ?? 0 -
Your problem lies in the firing pin, and spring change. The slam fire problem which lead to that change, was caused with your hand loads.
Those rifles were designed to shoot 1000's of rounds of military ammunition. Known fact, that military primers are harder than commercial primers. The firing pin, was not hard enough to beat the hardness of the Tula primer, for more than, about ten rounds.
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EDIT 1
To be clear, I suspect the new firing pin was not hardened properly. That is why it distorted.
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EDIT 2
quote:I'm pretty sure it's not my hand loads because I load to only about the middle of the allowable grain weight for the Hornaday manual.
Rawhide54,
I was not insinuating that it was the way that you reloaded your ammunition, but rather a problem with a component. That component, being the primer. Military primers have a harder casing than commercial primer's(commercial primers are like the ones you and I use, for the most part). The steel in the primer cup takes more of a whack to dent , setting the primer off.
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Quick answer, apart from not very good accuracy, I've never had any issues with "Tulammo" or any other Russian made steel case 7.62x39 ammo.
While I wouldn't say its "impossible", I've also never heard of any overpressure rounds of this hitting the market, and since this is probably one of the most commonly fired centerfire rounds in the USA, if there were a real problem, it would probably be widely publicized on gun forums like this and the like.
On your problem, I think TSR has it.
Most likely, either the replacement firing pin and spring weren't up to snuff, they were damaged by hot reloads (possibly many of them over a prolonged period of time), or (maybe more likely) a combination of hot reloads and weak parts.
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Edit: So I think we have our answer (ie bad replacement pin). Hitting harder military style primers with a softer than spec pin would cause it to distort faster, potentially explaining why this pin worked OK for reloads, but not for military-type steel case Russian made ammo.
A lot of of people concentrate on the floating firing pin of the SKS (that potentially causes slam-fires) and that's good, but I think there is another potentially serious safety issue with these worth consideration. Apparently the rifle manual safety just locks the trigger and *NOT* the action or firing pin.
In other words, even if the gun is on "safe" it could theoretically still go off if dropped, or with a sharp blow to the gun, etc. The point its, its probably NOT a good idea to keep these "cocked and locked" for carry like certain other designs, and its probably wiser to keep the chamber empty until you're ready to shoot.
quote:Also agree nothing wrong with Tula or Wolf ammo in SKS or AKs. This is the same ammo the Russians have been making for over half a decade.
True, though to be a bit more specific, I think they've been making it for over FIVE decades, and its been available for sale in the USA for at least two decades.
I've even heard that the "military classic" ammo was (and maybe still is) made to the same spec as Russian military ammo. Don't know if that's true, though I do know that standard issue for Russian military hasn't been 7,62x39 for a long time.
FWIW, the Wolf Steel case 7.62x39 costs about $275/1000 rounds right now. In 2008, at the time of the Obama election (but before the first Obama ammo "panic") it was about $200/1000 rounds. In 2004 it was about $150/1000 rounds. In 1994 you could buy this for about $90/1000 rounds!0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Your problem lies in the firing pin, and spring change. The slam fire problem which lead to that change, was caused with your hand loads.
Those rifles were designed to shoot 1000's of rounds of military ammunition. Known fact, that military primers are harder than commercial primers. The firing pin, was not hard enough to beat the hardness of the Tula primer, for more than, about ten rounds.
Best
EDIT 1
To be clear, I suspect the new firing pin was not hardened properly. That is why it distorted.
Best
+1 Nailed it!
I found out the hard way about these soft firing pins. Very obvious. Also agree nothing wrong with Tula or Wolf ammo in SKS or AKs. This is the same ammo the Russians have been making for over half a decade.
I have seen tens of thousands of steel cased Russ ammo fired at the range I use out of AKs and SKS. I have heard enough about the extractor debate. Both rifles were designed for the steel cased Berdan primed ammo.0 -
I used to mess with SKSs all the time. Sometimes, firing pins will gall and lock together with the firing pin retaining pin inside the bolt. Often with the firing pin in the out position. Thus you have a dangerous situation as it will stop firing until the mag is emptied -- scary.
This subject was the subject of debates well before there were forums and thousands of Chinese surplus were sold here in the early 80s.
Some of the used ones had firing pins stuck. Also back then, ammo was not available and reloaders formed their own if they fired their SKSs at all.0 -
Thanks for all the insight.
I suspect it was a poor quality firing pin and spring from what you all have said. I'm pretty sure it's not my hand loads because I load to only about the middle of the allowable grain weight for the Hornaday manual. I don't think you can even get the max charge of Reloader 7 into that case without compressing the daylights out of the load. Just put a new Murray Gunsmithing firing pin and spring in it and will try to take it to the range tomorrow.0
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