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Winchester model 1892 barrel length

isutoad
Was looking at a winchester 1892 model . It is a 38-40 with half Oct and half round barrel. It has the button mag. It has a 22 inch barrell. Is that correct. Thank you.
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • MG1890
    It could be correct, although standard was a 24". Is the muzzle blued or white? Flat or crowned? Year of manufacture?
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  • isutoad
    I will need to check the barrel end but was made in 1902.
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  • MG1890
    1902 rifle should have a flat uncrowned muzzle, no bluing. Front sight location is the next clue. How far from muzzle to center of front sight dovetail?
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  • isutoad
    Thanks so much. I need to do some checking and get back to you. I don't have the rifle here.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    1902 rifle should have a flat uncrowned muzzle, no bluing. Front sight location is the next clue. How far from muzzle to center of front sight dovetail?


    Muzzles are ALWAYS crowned. A crown does not have to be a radius, or an accute angle. It can be just 90 degrees.

    isutoad,

    I think you need to talk to Bert about this matter, as the only thing that IMHO can tell you if your rifle is totally correct, would be the Cody letter. Actually it is not that costly, and adds value(compared to the price of the letter) to your rifle, if the rifle letter's.

    The date you state could be subject to error, depending on where you got your information from. Bert H will be able to help you along with this too.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Bert H,

    A crown does not reflect the shape of the muzzle end of the barrel, although many crowns are shaped. The crown relates the consistancy in concentricity, of the muzzle's relationship to the center line of the bore, at the muzzle. And yes, that little 45 degree chamfer, IS a crown, weather Winchester says it in their notes or not.

    Best

    EDIT 2

    Bert,

    I understand wholeheartedly, what you are trying to say, and perhaps the term "crown", today, means differently than what it did in those days. But by today's standard, the crown is the way the muzzle end of the bore is dressed, to insure perfect concentricity, as it is the very last part of the firearm to touch the bullet. It is detrimental to accuracy, and that is what that "chamfer" is for. Even Winchester was smart enough to realize it needed that for accuracy. If you have ever made a barrel from a blank, you would understand this. If you still do not believe it, I know an experiment you can try, to prove, or disprove it.

    Best
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  • Bert H.
    MG1980 is correct. Winchester "Rifle" barrels were not ever "crowned" until the very late 1930s. "Carbine" and "Musket" barrels were always crowned.

    Winchester finished the Rifle barrels with a flat (uncrowned per their own engineering notes) muzzle face that was left in the white (unblued). The entrance to the bore will have a light to moderate 45-degree chamfer.
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  • isutoad
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    MG1980 is correct. Winchester "Rifle" barrels were not ever "crowned" until the very late 1930s. "Carbine" and "Musket" barrels were always crowned.

    Winchester finished the Rifle barrels with a flat (uncrowned per their own engineering notes) muzzle face that was left in the white (unblued). The entrance to the bore will have a light to moderate 45-degree chamfer.


    I believe the gun is original but to be semi sure did they make it in a 22 inch barrel. Also it looks like it is an even 11 inches October and 11 inches round. Should this be.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by isutoad
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    MG1980 is correct. Winchester "Rifle" barrels were not ever "crowned" until the very late 1930s. "Carbine" and "Musket" barrels were always crowned.

    Winchester finished the Rifle barrels with a flat (uncrowned per their own engineering notes) muzzle face that was left in the white (unblued). The entrance to the bore will have a light to moderate 45-degree chamfer.


    I believe the gun is original but to be semi sure did they make it in a 22 inch barrel. Also it looks like it is an even 11 inches October and 11 inches round. Should this be.


    A 22-inch barrel could have been special ordered, but needs to be verified in the original records. The measurement you mention for the octagon and the round section could be correct. Can you post (or send me) pictures of it? What is the serial number? With the serial number, I can check the factory records.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    EDIT 1

    Bert H,

    A crown does not reflect the shape of the muzzle end of the barrel, although many crowns are shaped. The crown relates the consistancy in concentricity, of the muzzle's relationship to the center line of the bore, at the muzzle. And yes, that little 45 degree chamfer, IS a crown, weather Winchester says it in their notes or not.

    Best


    Tim,

    Neither I, or most barrel making experts will agree with your stated position.

    The original Winchester barrel blueprints specifically state "No crown", and those folks knew exactly what they were talking about and doing.

    The chamfer on the bore is not a "crown"... instead, it is exactly what is stated, a "chamfer, which is interchangeable with the term "bevel".

    Many crowned barrels also have a chamfered bore.
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  • Mod1892
    Hello,

    A 22 inch half octagon barrel is absolutely possible. I have two of them. They are quite uncommon though. 20 inch barrel sporting rifles are by far MUCH more common and they also were manufactured with a half octagon barrels. A very quick way to make certain that the barrel is not an after factory alteration from a full octagon barrel is that the barrel address is positioned totally different on original half octagon barrels. The left hand edge of the address is to the right of the "seam" between the metal end cap and the fore end wood. The address is centered along that line on full octagon barrels.
    BA_zps4d35a141.jpg

    If you will send photos and the serial number of the rifle I will be glad to take a look at the rifle for you. My email address is 2bitrifles@gmail.com Please include photos of the barrel with a tape measure next to it and one of the muzzle end with a tape next to it. What is the length of the magazine? What is the shape of the end cap on the magazine? Is it flat or rounded?

    You might also take a look at this Sticky from the top of the page:
    http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355

    Michael
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