AR15 Offhand Match Rifle, Hooked Buttplate?
So, I shoot an AR for offhand matches.. It's hard to use, 20" HBAR & standard A2 stock makes it muzzleheavy, and hard to plant against my shoulder.
Am thinking about fabricating an aluminum hooked buttplate. That is, unless I can buy something ready to go.
Maybe a buttstock weight would help, too??
Well, guys, we only shoot (4) shots offhand at 100 yard steel targets. But, these offhand are weighted heavily in regards to points, so I need to hit them.
I've shot plenty of different rifles on this stage. Yes, I could setup a bolt gun that would work very well, and in the past, I have done so. Scope power is not a problem, and as the smallest target is 3" diameter, I need enough magnification to aim at the center of the target. My hit percentage on the 3" is about 90+% with a good fitting rifle. That's the 1st shot with a cold bore.
But I will conquer this beast called the AR. For one thing, not having to break position to reload does help. Secondly, being able to fire my 4 rounds in 10 to 15 seconds is a lot less fatiguing than the bolt / single shot guys.
And, living in New York State, I want to use my AR just to show my ass to Cuomo.
I appreciate all the advice, but I don't normally shoot a 36X for this offhand. I shot the only rifle I brought with me, which was my .222 benchrest rifle. See, there is a benchrest portion of this match, too. I have a 6.5x - 20x Leupold with target knobs on the AR for the offhand. But, just as a point, you guys should look & see what high power silhouette shooters are using. 24x-40x. Offhand. 36x is as steady a 6x. Big power does help in offhand.
The ability to hit 90% of the time is only with one of my bolt action match rifles. Not with the AR!! Therein lies the problem. The 3" target is only fired at once, the other 3 targets are progressively larger.
Thanks everybody for your input. I may buy that adjustable target stock.
Am thinking about fabricating an aluminum hooked buttplate. That is, unless I can buy something ready to go.
Maybe a buttstock weight would help, too??
Well, guys, we only shoot (4) shots offhand at 100 yard steel targets. But, these offhand are weighted heavily in regards to points, so I need to hit them.
I've shot plenty of different rifles on this stage. Yes, I could setup a bolt gun that would work very well, and in the past, I have done so. Scope power is not a problem, and as the smallest target is 3" diameter, I need enough magnification to aim at the center of the target. My hit percentage on the 3" is about 90+% with a good fitting rifle. That's the 1st shot with a cold bore.
But I will conquer this beast called the AR. For one thing, not having to break position to reload does help. Secondly, being able to fire my 4 rounds in 10 to 15 seconds is a lot less fatiguing than the bolt / single shot guys.
And, living in New York State, I want to use my AR just to show my ass to Cuomo.
I appreciate all the advice, but I don't normally shoot a 36X for this offhand. I shot the only rifle I brought with me, which was my .222 benchrest rifle. See, there is a benchrest portion of this match, too. I have a 6.5x - 20x Leupold with target knobs on the AR for the offhand. But, just as a point, you guys should look & see what high power silhouette shooters are using. 24x-40x. Offhand. 36x is as steady a 6x. Big power does help in offhand.
The ability to hit 90% of the time is only with one of my bolt action match rifles. Not with the AR!! Therein lies the problem. The 3" target is only fired at once, the other 3 targets are progressively larger.
Thanks everybody for your input. I may buy that adjustable target stock.
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I have seen butt-stock weights that fit inside the area made for the cleaning kit.
Brownells has them
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/stock-hardware/weights/ar-15-buttstock-weight-prod10996.aspx0 -
Depending on the type of match you enter? It's rules might not allow a hooked buttplate, and a weighted stock. This is done so all competitors, will have a standard non tricked out rifle. 0 -
Under NRA and CMP rules, there is no weight limit on Service Rifles. You can buy a weight to go in the buttstock compartment of an AR to adjust balance.
Hook buttplates are not allowed by NRA except for Any Rifle division.
If you are shooting under local rules, ask there.0 -
I like the idea you have, offhand shooting is its own world. Rules for your competition will be your guide. Perhaps a pocket formed on your shooting jacket to trap the butt. 0 -
We make our own rules on a local league. ANYTHING goes for the offhand portion of the match. Last week I shot a 36X scoped benchrest .222 on the offhand portion, because the AR is really bugging me.
Mainly I am looking for suggestion on improving the offhand ergonomics of the AR.
Just my son and I shoot AR's for this portion.
I have a Jewell trigger in this thing, with a 6.5X-20X Leupold. It just handles poorly offhand!0 -
You're likely to dismay this, and that's okay, but I mean it in the best possible way...
Why don't you just find/ get a rifle that DOES feel comfortable shooting offhand?0 -
quote:Originally posted by MG1890
We make our own rules on a local league. ANYTHING goes for the offhand portion of the match. Last week I shot a 36X scoped benchrest .222 on the offhand portion, because the AR is really bugging me.
Mainly I am looking for suggestion on improving the offhand ergonomics of the AR.
Just my son and I shoot AR's for this portion.
I have a Jewell trigger in this thing, with a 6.5X-20X Leupold. It just handles poorly offhand!
I don't know the distance your shooting? But you might consider either a lower powered scope, or even a red dot with a 2 minute dot. In my personal experience trying to shoot offhand with a scope greater than 4 power is extremely frustrating. As any movement causes the reticule to jump around. 6.5X magnification is to much to hold steady, for accurate SUSTAINED off-hand shooting, IMHO. 36X is ridiculous. On the other hand if all you guys are doing, is "Turkey Shooting"? Taking a individual shot in turn, every 5 minutes, that's another thing entirely.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
I don't know the distance your shooting? But you might consider either a lower powered scope, or even a red dot with a 2 minute dot. In my personal experience trying to shoot offhand with a scope greater than 4 power is extremely frustrating. As any movement causes the reticule to jump around. 6.5X magnification is to much to hold steady, for accurate SUSTAINED off-hand shooting, IMHO. 36X is ridiculous. On the other hand if all you guys are doing, is "Turkey Shooting"? Taking a individual shot in turn, every 5 minutes, that's another thing entirely.
This.
Best offhand shooting is probably done with iron sights (specifically diopter/"peep" rear sight and globe front sight). Hole through hole arrangement means conventional dead focus on the front sights isn't necessary, making this a viable system for those who have trouble with conventional front post iron sights.
IMO, something like a 36X scope is just ill-suited for offhand shooting at 100 yards. Anyway, the OP can use whatever works for him, but if there were me, I'd say that 10x for a 3" target at 100 yards offhand should be enough and may even be too much.
On what to do about AR-15 balance, well, the usual solution for muzzle-heavy HBAR type guns is to add weight to the buttstock.
See here: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/stock-hardware/weights/ar-15-buttstock-weight-prod10996.aspx
There are all sorts of other things you can do to play with the weight, including adding a heavy weighted recoil buffer (which will add another 1/4lb or so), or even just strapping on external weight (like in a weighted cheekrest, etc).
Depending on how "serious" you are, you might consider an upgrade to a weighted pure match type stock which should also be perfectly adjustable for length of pull and cheekrest/line of sight height:
http://www.mitchellsupply.com/ar15_match_parts.htm
Edit:
Happy New year to you too.
Maybe it wouldn't be fair/competitive/sporting (depending on the nature of your club, friendliness, and who you're shooting against), but if you really have the ability to shoot whatever you like, for something like this a pure match rifle and setup would be optimal. So you're talking a shooting jacket, palmrest/shooting glove, and pure match rifle with fully adjustable stock, target grade pistol grip with palm rest, match sights, barrel, trigger, and match grade ammo.
Obviously, gun weight matters a lot, but balance of that weight is just as important, and having the ability to tweak the balance a little with adjustable weights can help.
In any case, if you're really hitting a 3" target from 100 yards offhand 90% of the time, I don't think you need advice from me or anyone else on what to do! As basis for comparison, the 10 ring on the NRA SR1 target (which is the 100 yard reduction of the standard 200 yard offhand high power rifle target) is 3.35" wide, and if you can hit that 90% of the time offhand, let alone with a fairly modest setup, I think you're doing quite well indeed.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MG1890
We make our own rules on a local league. ANYTHING goes for the offhand portion of the match. Last week I shot a 36X scoped benchrest .222 on the offhand portion, because the AR is really bugging me.
Mainly I am looking for suggestion on improving the offhand ergonomics of the AR.
Just my son and I shoot AR's for this portion.
I have a Jewell trigger in this thing, with a 6.5X-20X Leupold. It just handles poorly offhand!
Weight distribution is everything, when it comes to ergonomics.
So, with that said, and also having the information, that these rifles are pretty much "UNLIMITED", I would suggest changing your whole stock, for one that is fully adjustable for cant, length of pull, and has weight hangers.
Just like the one Beantown has in the photo above. BTW...Happy New Year Beantown!
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
I have seen butt-stock weights that fit inside the area made for the cleaning kit.
If you wanna try it before you buy it. Fill the thing with BBs or lead shots if you got those rolling around. You can also adjust the weight and position. Put a wad of sock in the area before the BBs to move the weight back or the other way.0
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