Why can't I get velocity with Titegroup? .45acp
I've been experimenting with Titegroup lately and I can't figure out what's going on. It's supposed to be a hot powder. I'm using load data from the latest Hornady manual. Loading 185 grain Hornady HP/XTPs.
The first batch I made, I didn't seat the bullets as deep as in the new manual specs and I loaded with 5.5 grains of Titegroup to start out. Through my CED M2 chrono, the results were lackluster. Through a 5" barrel, same one used in test in manual, I was getting mid 700s, with a couple low 800s. They were getting 900 in the book. This was a warm day.
So, I decided to bump up the powder a half grain. Loaded a batch to 6.0-6.1 grains of Titegroup. Seated the bullets slightly deeper. Went out and tested when it was mid 40s. No change! Would say these are reading even slower! (None hit 800 fps. Most were over 700 but below 750. I don't know how it's possible. They were getting 950 with this load in the book.
I put a very slight crimp on the case mouth just to close them up. Plenty of bullet tension by the look of it.
I tested some factory Winchester whitebox I had with me this last time and they were noticeably faster through the chrono.
6.1 grains is highlighted in red as a max load for this powder and bullet weight. Anybody have any guesses what's going on? I trust the chronograph fwiw. It's never given me lower than expected velocities on other tests.
The first batch I made, I didn't seat the bullets as deep as in the new manual specs and I loaded with 5.5 grains of Titegroup to start out. Through my CED M2 chrono, the results were lackluster. Through a 5" barrel, same one used in test in manual, I was getting mid 700s, with a couple low 800s. They were getting 900 in the book. This was a warm day.
So, I decided to bump up the powder a half grain. Loaded a batch to 6.0-6.1 grains of Titegroup. Seated the bullets slightly deeper. Went out and tested when it was mid 40s. No change! Would say these are reading even slower! (None hit 800 fps. Most were over 700 but below 750. I don't know how it's possible. They were getting 950 with this load in the book.
I put a very slight crimp on the case mouth just to close them up. Plenty of bullet tension by the look of it.
I tested some factory Winchester whitebox I had with me this last time and they were noticeably faster through the chrono.
6.1 grains is highlighted in red as a max load for this powder and bullet weight. Anybody have any guesses what's going on? I trust the chronograph fwiw. It's never given me lower than expected velocities on other tests.
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Are you using the same primer and cases as the data? Some lots of powder are hotter than others, that's why I try and buy larger kegs or lots of smaller ones from the same lot.
Barrels are different also. Yours could be on the loose side.0 -
"I tested some factory Winchester whitebox I had with me this last time and they were noticeably faster through the chrono"
BUT, How did those velocities compare with advertised velocities? Maybe you have a "slow barrel" or a mis-reading chrono. I have no idea what TiteGroup velocities are in the cartridges I load with it since it's all practice ammo so consistency is more important than top speed.0 -
Well, here's the numbers. I tested using two different guns as well.
The first test was 5.5 grains of Titegroup, OALs at 1.227. Out of my XDM with a 3.8" barrel, these loads had a low of 612 fps twice, and a high of 736 fps with a 20 shot average of 664 fps.
The recent batch was loaded with 6.0 grains, OALs at 1.216. Out of the XDM again, I took 6 shots. Low of 609.8. High of 660.4. 6 shot average of 637! Same brass, same primers.
The win white box out of the XDM had a low of 683. Three shots hit 699 fps, and 719, 742, 797. And these were 230 grain HPs. NOT 185 grain.
Moving up to the 5" barrel out of my Kimber Eclipse Target II, the 5.5 grain batch had a low of 738 and a high of 826. 13 shot group average of 760 fps. Should have been 850 fps according to book.
6.0 grain loads out of the 5" barrel had a low of 682.8, a high of 766.7 and a 13 shot group average of 724 fps. Should be 950 fps.
The manual used Hornady brass and a Springfield 1911. I used the same Winchester primers.
When I test .223 through this chrono, the numbers are really tight. These numbers are all over the place.0 -
I think you need to get some factory ammo that has the FPS listed on the box and compare with what YOUR chrono. I suspect something is
amiss with your test gear0 -
just to note; different barrels will give considerably different velocities with the SAME ammo. I once had a surplus High Standard 1911 barrel that would give 200 fps more vel. that a commercial barrel with the same ammo. 0 -
I will toss in a vote for barrel differences -OR- a slow batch of titegroup. Buy a pound from a different lot and see if you see any improvement. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
I will toss in a vote for barrel differences -OR- a slow batch of titegroup. Buy a pound from a different lot and see if you see any improvement.
That's probably what I will have to do. If I can ever find any again. I expected differences in velocity from differing barrel lengths.
Are you guys saying different velocities can happen out of the same barrel lengths? Like if you compared two 5" barrels, same ammo?0 -
Forget the loading data, how is the pressure?
I've seen starting loads that were too hot, and max loads that were very mild. All guns are different, the books get you in the ballpark.
Ignorance is bliss, and owning a chronograph can drive you nuts. I finally gave mine away when I quit trying to chase the velocity demon.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JackBwr
quote:Originally posted by bpost
I will toss in a vote for barrel differences -OR- a slow batch of titegroup. Buy a pound from a different lot and see if you see any improvement.
That's probably what I will have to do. If I can ever find any again. I expected differences in velocity from differing barrel lengths.
Are you guys saying different velocities can happen out of the same barrel lengths? Like if you compared two 5" barrels, same ammo?
Absolutely. BIG DIFFERENCES. I have two identical Springfield 1903-A3's velocity from gun to gun is about 200 FPS. It was so noticeable with cast bullets I had to lower powder charges for the one rifle to keep loads from leading.0
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