Ammo Questions?
Recently picked up some OLD boxes of ammo that was marked for 1909 ARG mauser but the bolt is difficult to close. The headstamp is 7.65x54. What have I got, mosin 91/30 ammo? They do NOT have 7.62 on them. The rifle works fine with PPU 7.65x53 Also I have a Hopkins and allen 32 long topbreak revolver and want to know if Aguila S&W 98 gr 32long is too hot for this old timer....If so what kind is recommended so I don't damage it? Thanks!
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The difference between 53mm and 54mm. Is .040 of a inch. Using a black Sharpie pen, coat the out side surface of the problem ammo. If the ink is rubbed off, when chambering the problem ammo? Quit using it, and go back to the Yugo ammo that works OK. 0 -
Specs on the Aguila 32 S&W Long is 98 grain at 705 fps for a ME of 108 ft lbs. This is in line with the standard load for the 32 S&W Long. If you are in doubt, a 32 S&W Long revolver will safely fire .32 S&W cartridges. Both headspace off the cartridge rim.
EIT- note to HRF- your caution is appreciated, however, the standard 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long sold today is at comparable pressures to black powder loads. Stay away from hot stuff (like Buffalo Bore) with the top breaks. 1915 is well into the smokeless time frame. 38 S&W is another matter entirely.0 -
H&A ended business in 1915 and most if not all of their revolvers were made for black powder ammo.
Smokeless loads may not destroy it, but will likely loosen the lockup sooner.0 -
7.65x54(R) has a big ole rim on it and is way too fat to even go in the magazine of an Argie rifle. There are several cartridges that are of similar size to the 7.65x53 (7.7x58 Jap & 7.5x55 Swiss come to mind). Impossible to tell from here what you have. 0 -
I carry a 32 long made pre WWII and shoot standard 32 long modern ammo with no issues but you should do as I did which was tested any ammo first with caution and only load 1 shot to try them, also make sure any/all guns are in good operating condition before use. 0 -
jetmek,
We need more information from the box and the base of the case. Photos would be a big help.
And I quote:
'Under the heading "7.65 Mauser Update", Capt. Luis A. Garcia Bourimborde who was at that time the Argentine Defense Attache in Tokyo, who describes himself as an Ordnance Officer, states that the only designation for military ammo that was in use during the time all the rifles were manufactured was 7.65 Mauser, with no case length designation attached, and so all rifles were made to one chamber standard, within tolerences, whether 1891, 1909 or 1935 contract. The case length denomination didn't enter into the picture until the 1950's or 60's when NATO started so designating their ammo (7.62x51), and in the case of Argentina, they simply measured their case length and applied a two digit approximation by rounding up.(added... The original cases measured 53.5mm and manufacturers chose to either round up or down)
Bourimborde goes on to state that he is of the opinion that the "SF" 81 ammo is likely out of spec. which he had also previously found when inspecting prior lots of Argentine manufactured ammo, but never with the old DWM, FN, HP nor Rem-UMC. He also states, "I can tell you for sure there were never two different 7.65 cartridges, only different denominations or headstamps". He also further states "Any 1891, 1909 or 1935 Argentine Mauser is safe with any military ammunition you can close the bolt on, no matter what effort is needed".'
Best.0 -
Per COTW by Barnes, the Argentine Mauser is 7.65x53. He doesn't list a 54mm case.
I suspect you have some out of spec ammo.
Blacken the neck of a 54mm case and see what changes.
32S&W long ammo is all low pressure.
Remove the cylinder and note the barrel may be paper thin at the bottom.
I have chipped the barrel away at that point using standard smokeless loads. I'd either shoot reduced loads or black powder.0 -
Hi,
Nononsense is spot on with his response. I have run into this issue prior and I was confused by it.
I have about 20 to 30 7.65 Mauser cartridges in my collection. I have both FN, DM, headstamps as well as Argentinian FMMAP, FMMAPB, FMMAP SF,FM SL M, FYA HP,IMPA, SF, and FMC SI headstamps to name some. With the exception of FN, DM, and FYA HP all were manufactured in Argentina. There are observation (explosive),blank, AP, AP-T, heavy ball, light ball, MG/rifle, round-nose and pointed-nose rifle cartridges - most with copper clad steel jackets. So there is a good variety here from which measurements were made for identification.
The 7.65 is sometimes referred to as the 7.65 Belgian Mauser, Turkish Mauser, Argentine Mauser and by some DWM case designations. To confuse matters even more I have seen the cartridge referred to as the 7.65x53, 7.65x53.5, and 7.65x54 Mauser. So the same cartridge goes by many names.
When I made measurements of the cartridges, the case length (OACL) most often turned out between 53 and 54 mm. So it would be logicalfor the case length could either be rounded up or down as Nonnonsense has stated.
Finally, I have seen original ammunition boxes (as you may have) from Argentine and they are labeled 7.65x54 Mauser. I think Europe tended to use the 7.65x53 designation and Argentina used 7.65x54. Therefore, I believe if you have either 7.65x53 or 7.6x54 Mauser headstamped ammunition, it is the same cartridge and will be suitable for your rifle.
Best,
Heavyiron0
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