French mod 1874 rifle..HELP
My bud has the above in 22cal. It appears to be a military training rife as it is very heavy duty. I can't post pictures but can anyone give me any insight/info on this gun?? Thanks. Tom
Update: After close examination it appears his gun is in fact relined. It also seems to have begun life from the get go in 22 at the factory. ALL numbers match, even the stock. It is only missing a sling and cleaning rod. We didn't have time to shoot is here but he is to fire it when he gets back to TN.
I think he has a real gem but have no way to place a value on it. Thanks for all help. Tom
Anybody: My pal sent me a few pictures of the gun but I cannot post them. If any of you can help, I can forward the photos to and maybe you can post them. Any help appreciated. tccox1224@yahoo.com
Update: After close examination it appears his gun is in fact relined. It also seems to have begun life from the get go in 22 at the factory. ALL numbers match, even the stock. It is only missing a sling and cleaning rod. We didn't have time to shoot is here but he is to fire it when he gets back to TN.
I think he has a real gem but have no way to place a value on it. Thanks for all help. Tom
Anybody: My pal sent me a few pictures of the gun but I cannot post them. If any of you can help, I can forward the photos to and maybe you can post them. Any help appreciated. tccox1224@yahoo.com
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The French Model 1874 Rifle was called the Gras. This photo show a carbine version. The standard Infantry rifle. Had a much longer barrel.
Never was aware that a .22 caliber training version of the Gras, was made?
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I wouldn't be surprised; I have a .22 caliber conversion of a French Model 1873 11mm officers revolver. 0 -
What you have looks to be a 74/80 musketoon or carbine. The original caliber was 11x59R Gras. Some were converted to 8mm Lebel and yes some were converted to 22LR. Many of these rifles saw action in the French colonies as well as WWI
All can be fired if you so desire. I owned and fired several in 11x59R and from experience formed 348 brass will work in some rifles but not in others. I use 43 Spanish base or BB 43 Spanish brass in rifles that will not work with 348s. I use 446 bullets as nominal diameter of bores I have slugged are .445.
PPU currently makes 8mm Lebel and brass is available from Grafs or Midway.0 -
quote:Originally posted by chiefr
What you have looks to be a 74/80 musketoon or carbine. The original caliber was 11x59R Gras. Some were converted to 8mm Lebel and yes some were converted to 22LR. Many of these rifles saw action in the French colonies as well as WWI
All can be fired if you so desire. I owned and fired several in 11x59R and from experience formed 348 brass will work in some rifles but not in others. I use 43 Spanish base or BB 43 Spanish brass in rifles that will not work with 348s. I use 446 bullets as nominal diameter of bores I have slugged are .445.
PPU currently makes 8mm Lebel and brass is available from Grafs or Midway.
Didn't mean to confuse the issue. The photo of the Gras carbine is off the net. Don't know what the OP's Gras's, looks like. Just posted it to clarify identity, of what the French Model 1874 is.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tccox
My bud has the above in 22cal. It appears to be a military training rife as it is very heavy duty. I can't post pictures but can anyone give me any insight/info on this gun?? Thanks. Tom
Update: After close examination it appears his gun is in fact relined. It also seems to have begun life from the get go in 22 at the factory. ALL numbers match, even the stock. It is only missing a sling and cleaning rod. We didn't have time to shoot is here but he is to fire it when he gets back to TN.
I think he has a real gem but have no way to place a value on it. Thanks for all help. Tom
Anything is possible. But Model 1874 Gras rifles. Had a very short production run in the French arsenals. They were replaced after 1886, by the 8mm Lebel smokeless powder repeating rifles. As far as I know .22 training rifles, didn't come into use until after 1900. This would have been many years after the Gras, ceased to be made.0 -
Agreed, I don't think that such work would have been done at the factory at all. Slight chance it was a 1900s arsenal rework for training, but I've not heard of that either. I rather suspect that what you have is: some soldier brought back a Gras from WW1 and had a sleeve installed to shoot .22s so he could actually shoot the thing, and hopefully had the extractor modified to boot. Being as the Gras has a large firing pin and the .22 is so small, there's a good chance that the CF pin would actually set it off... or if the guy who did the lining was really good he drilled it slightly off center so it would line up with the pin, or made a rimfire conversion. 0 -
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In the very first picture you can see the liner. Also #3.
This is not a factory conversion.
Value is not spectacular.0 -
I have personally handled a Gras rifle in 22LR, had a chance to purchase and did not do so. Since firearms blogs and auction sites have became a norm, I have knowledge of about a half dozen more or so in existence in 22LR over the years. Therefore, more are bound to exist.
There is practically no publications that I know of with any detailed info on French Gras Rifles or any French rifles in the transitional period from cartridge rifle to the 1886 Lebel. There is very little printed info on the Berthiers rifles and variants. Only the 1886 Lebel has plenty of writing and references available as it was the first with smokeless.
The specimen I handled by no means looked like any type of modern reline as there were signs of use of corrosive ammo. I have no idea who converted these rifles to 22LR. The French have been known to use or modify preexisting rifles in the past. Both the British and the Germans have modified rifles to shoot 22LR for training purposes and to save money. I can't see no reason the French did not do the same.0
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