Shipping a Receiver
I am listing a Springfield Trapdoor Receiver.
Can I as a private seller legally ship this receiver USPS Priority Mail?
It actually would fit in a Small Flat Rate Box.
Would like to know before I list it. Shipping via the USPS would be so much cheaper then UPS.
I know it can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. without an FFL. It was manufactured
long before 1898. But yes there are a few exceptions to this rule.
It is only a 5 digit serial number so it was manufactured in the 1870's.
Can I as a private seller legally ship this receiver USPS Priority Mail?
It actually would fit in a Small Flat Rate Box.
Would like to know before I list it. Shipping via the USPS would be so much cheaper then UPS.
I know it can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. without an FFL. It was manufactured
long before 1898. But yes there are a few exceptions to this rule.
It is only a 5 digit serial number so it was manufactured in the 1870's.
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yes you can you can ship any long gun or parts that will only fit long guns USPS hand guns Can also be shipped but only by a dealer
on the hand guns0 -
Caution, I am not a lawyer nor a dealer.
Since you may legally mail a rifle, it is hard to see why you should not be able to mail a rifle receiver.
But dealing with postal clerks who get hysterical at the mention of a gun can be trying. I once had to get the postmaster involved.
And I don't think you could flat rate it, I believe it must go by registered mail. There is some language about antiques in postal regulations, but good luck giving the postal clerk a history lesson.0 -
quote:Originally posted by TheBrassMan
I am listing a Springfield Trapdoor Receiver.
Can I as a private seller legally ship this receiver USPS Priority Mail?
It actually would fit in a Small Flat Rate Box.
Would like to know before I list it. Shipping via the USPS would be so much cheaper then UPS.
I know it can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. without an FFL. It was manufactured
long before 1898. But yes there are a few exceptions to this rule.
It is only a 5 digit serial number so it was manufactured in the 1870's.
I'd say you can ship it through the USPS without any problems, since: 1) it is "a rifle" and 2) it is considered an "antique firearm."
I would not conclude "it can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. without an FFL" since some jurisdictions do not recognize the Federal definitions for "antique firearm" and have their own laws relating to possession and transfer of what the rest of the country recognizes as such.
Edit to comment on:
quote:And I don't think you could flat rate it, I believe it must go by registered mail.
There is no requirement to ship any firearm you can legally ship through the mail by registered mail. If it fits in the flat-rate Priority Mail box; it's fine for you to ship it that way.0 -
quote:Originally posted by competentone
quote:Originally posted by TheBrassMan
I am listing a Springfield Trapdoor Receiver.
Can I as a private seller legally ship this receiver USPS Priority Mail?
It actually would fit in a Small Flat Rate Box.
Would like to know before I list it. Shipping via the USPS would be so much cheaper then UPS.
I know it can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. without an FFL. It was manufactured
long before 1898. But yes there are a few exceptions to this rule.
It is only a 5 digit serial number so it was manufactured in the 1870's.
I'd say you can ship it through the USPS without any problems, since: 1) it is "a rifle" and 2) it is considered an "antique firearm."
I would not conclude "it can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. without an FFL" since some jurisdictions do not recognize the Federal definitions for "antique firearm" and have their own laws relating to possession and transfer of what the rest of the country recognizes as such.
Edit to comment on:
quote:And I don't think you could flat rate it, I believe it must go by registered mail.
There is no requirement to ship any firearm you can legally ship through the mail by registered mail. If it fits in the flat-rate Priority Mail box; it's fine for you to ship it that way.
Actually there are quite a few exceptions to the rule.
California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Tennessee and Washington, D.C.
All of these have to go to an FFL Dealer except Washington, D.C. where there is no sales.0 -
quote:Originally posted by competentoneThere is no requirement to ship any firearm you can legally ship through the mail by registered mail. If it fits in the flat-rate Priority Mail box; it's fine for you to ship it that way.
Then what is meant by item c?
432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:
a.Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must:
b.Bear a "Return Service Requested" endorsement.
c.Be sent by Priority Mail Express ("signature required" must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail.
d.Include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.
OK, Priority Mail Express, signature required, isn't quite Registered Mail, but it is still not an "anything fits" mailing.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
quote:Originally posted by competentoneThere is no requirement to ship any firearm you can legally ship through the mail by registered mail. If it fits in the flat-rate Priority Mail box; it's fine for you to ship it that way.
Then what is meant by item c?
432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:
a.Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must:
b.Bear a "Return Service Requested" endorsement.
c.Be sent by Priority Mail Express ("signature required" must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail.
d.Include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.
OK, Priority Mail Express, signature required, isn't quite Registered Mail, but it is still not an "anything fits" mailing.
You can get Signature confirmation with Priority mail.
It costs $2.95 extra.0 -
Under federal laws, a receiver is the same as a complete firearm. The same transfer laws & the same shipping laws apply.
Brass Man is right, his TD receiver is an antique firearm. For USPS purposes, it is NOT a "firearm"; it is not a "rifle". However, he needs a disclaimer in his ad, "I can only ship where legal", & he has to check ATF P5300.4 to verify that the buyer's state/local laws permit it. He doesn't need to discuss the contents with the postal clerk, he just needs to pack it securely & honestly answer "NO" to the "4 questions", & he can ship any way he wants.
Hawk makes a good point; when section 432 was rewritten last year, it was poorly written. Obviously the author has no analytical skill, because the logic doesn't work. The paragraph Hawk cited applies to mailing within a state --- sort of. It says nothing about mailing to another state. The biggest change is that it requires you to use registered mail (I think) or the outrageously priced Priority Mail Express. Registered mail used to be "recommended". I'm guessing that they are trying to avoid responsibility for a postal carrier leaving a firearm on your door step.
Neal
"The US Government - Celebrating 50 years of affirmative action. How do you like it so far?"
EDIT: Shipping UPS on a small package will cost about the same as USPS, especially if you insure. But, you still need to check state/local laws.0 -
Well I listed it with UPS shipping.
To much confusion.0 -
You are dealing with three seperate jurisdictions. 1) Federal govt (ATF & USPS), 2) The State where you live, 3) The State where the buyer lives.
The Federal Government does not consider that receiver to be a firearm. So, you can mail it anywhere you want, by any method you want.
If the State (and local govt) where you live has any applicable laws, you have to abide by them.
If the State (and local govt) where the buyer lives has any applicable laws he will have to abide by them.
And don't think that going to UPS will solve your problems. Some UPS clerks can be just as ignorant and obnoxious as some USPS clerks. The same goes for FedEx.
Get a signed statement from the buyer and a copy of his DL to verify age. Put it in a flat rate box and mail it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
quote:Originally posted by competentoneThere is no requirement to ship any firearm you can legally ship through the mail by registered mail. If it fits in the flat-rate Priority Mail box; it's fine for you to ship it that way.
Then what is meant by item c?
432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:
a.Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must:
b.Bear a "Return Service Requested" endorsement.
c.Be sent by Priority Mail Express ("signature required" must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail.
d.Include either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivery or Signature Confirmation service.
OK, Priority Mail Express, signature required, isn't quite Registered Mail, but it is still not an "anything fits" mailing.
Good point; this needs clarification.
Those terms, "Piority Mail Express" or "Registered mail," relate to mailing a rifle or shotgun by a non-FFL within one's own state. (No FFL need be involved in this situation.)
If you read farther down on 432.3 you will see the requirements for a non-FFL mailing a rifle or shotgun to an FFL (in his state or in any other state). The "Priority Mail Express or Registered Mail" is not a requirement, but only a recommendation in that circumstance.
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm0
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