I want to take a grinder to a Kel-Tec
after long and careful thought, I think I actually like a Kel-Tec P3AT slightly better than a Ruger LCP. so that means I have to get a P3AT also.
the one thing that really bothers me about the P3AT is the square muzzle. on the LCP it looks like they just buzzed off the sides with a grinder. why not do that with a P3AT?
the first two things that come to mind are compromised strength, and reduced weight of the slide.
I don't think taking the corners off the muzzle would compromise strength, because the LCP slide is nearly identical, with the corners buzzed off, and it's not weaker. so I think that should be ok.
the weight shouldn't be reduced by much, wild-ass-guess it has to be less than 5%, so I think that should be ok. anyways a slide reduced in weight would not have ejection problems or feed problems, but overall the gun may take a beating because the ammo kicks the slide harder (being lighter). more wear and risk of breaking the extractor, ejector, cam pin, recoil spring etc. but, since so little is being taken off, I don't think that will happen.
that's what I think.
I don't care about taking the finish off. I'll refinish that part somehow and so what if it looks ugly. I might buy a rust bucket anyways so I don't have to worry about it. but I do want it to work right.
what do you think about this.
plus, does anybody know if the slide is surface hardened like a Glock.
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exactly what I want!
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The Ruger is a basic copy of the Kel-Tec...so what now are you losing by staying with the Ruger?
Honestly, I think both are one upped by the S&W M&P 380, and the Body Guard 380.
Bestthe P3AT is 1.1 oz lighter, they upgraded to an external extractor spring which may work better than LCP's copy of the old P3AT extractor, and the knurling gives a much more positive grip on sweaty hands.
the S&W BG380 looks great, the angular grip actually fits very well in the hand, but I wouldn't consider it because of way too many problems reported. maybe a later version if they get it together. it is a tad bit bigger and heavier.
the one thing that really bothers me about the P3AT is the square muzzle. on the LCP it looks like they just buzzed off the sides with a grinder. why not do that with a P3AT?
the first two things that come to mind are compromised strength, and reduced weight of the slide.
I don't think taking the corners off the muzzle would compromise strength, because the LCP slide is nearly identical, with the corners buzzed off, and it's not weaker. so I think that should be ok.
the weight shouldn't be reduced by much, wild-ass-guess it has to be less than 5%, so I think that should be ok. anyways a slide reduced in weight would not have ejection problems or feed problems, but overall the gun may take a beating because the ammo kicks the slide harder (being lighter). more wear and risk of breaking the extractor, ejector, cam pin, recoil spring etc. but, since so little is being taken off, I don't think that will happen.
that's what I think.
I don't care about taking the finish off. I'll refinish that part somehow and so what if it looks ugly. I might buy a rust bucket anyways so I don't have to worry about it. but I do want it to work right.
what do you think about this.
plus, does anybody know if the slide is surface hardened like a Glock.
************************************
exactly what I want!
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The Ruger is a basic copy of the Kel-Tec...so what now are you losing by staying with the Ruger?
Honestly, I think both are one upped by the S&W M&P 380, and the Body Guard 380.
Bestthe P3AT is 1.1 oz lighter, they upgraded to an external extractor spring which may work better than LCP's copy of the old P3AT extractor, and the knurling gives a much more positive grip on sweaty hands.
the S&W BG380 looks great, the angular grip actually fits very well in the hand, but I wouldn't consider it because of way too many problems reported. maybe a later version if they get it together. it is a tad bit bigger and heavier.
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Don't they call that de-horning, making them more snag resistant. I'd use a file then a stone, grinders can hog off a lot of material in a hurry. Very hard to put it back without worrying about temper.
If you going after a mint: High Standard, Colt Match Target ... I would advise not to do it but a current production Ruger, Kel-Tec especially that's already seen some abuse, let the chips fall.0 -
Doesn't look like there's a lot of metal, between the barrel and front of slide. If you absolutely feel you have to. Just put a small radius on the flat surfaces.
Separate the slide and frame. Clamp the slide vertically in a soft jawed vise. Using small strips of emery cloth. Radius the edges using a shoe shining technique.0 -
The Ruger is a basic copy of the Kel-Tec...so what now are you losing by staying with the Ruger?
Honestly, I think both are one upped by the S&W M&P 380, and the Body Guard 380.
Best0 -
Haven't done a P3AT but have done several P11's with no ill effects. Check out KTOG.org website and use buzzword "Melting slide", I think you will find numerous discussions, photos, etc of this sort of thing.
I don't see any compromised structural integrity and haven't heard of any issues with anyone having done this.
Dan R0 -
WHY [?][?]
My P3AT rides in a back pocket holster just fine [;)]
I have some Fiocchi 90grHP that it shoots just fine. Hot ammo [^]0 -
quote:>>on the LCP it looks like they just buzzed off the sides with a grinder. why not do that with a P3AT?
If you're asking why Kel-Tec didn't do it, its because the Ruger is effectively an upgraded later clone. Its an "improved version" so to speak. You might as well ask why John Browning didn't melt the edges on his 1911! [;)]
Why shouldn't YOU do it? Because it will remove the bluing, requring a refinish and because it may reduce resale value.
So long as you don't go "crazy", I can't see why you'd run into any reliability or durability issues. I wouldn't start filing the BARREL, but the outside corners of the slide aren't structural elements and taking off a small amount of metal there shouldn't "matter". Then again, I also don't think rounding the muzzle in particular is going to give you much functional benefit either.
If you want to "dehorn" the entire gun, so that there are no sharp edges anywhere to catch on the draw or on your skin, I can see that. Lots of people do that to carry guns. . .and as you probably know, having no sharp edges is a marketing feature of purpose-designed carry guns.
To this this, you basically just "soften" the edges with a file or stone, then buff them. You're not supposed to. . .nor should you need to. . .take off a lot of metal.
quote:plus, does anybody know if the slide is surface hardened like a Glock.No. 3AT pistols do *NOT* have a carbo-nitrided (ie "Tenifer", "Melonite" "Nitron" etc) surface treatment.0 -
There's not much metal to remove if sharp edges on the front of the P3AT bother you. Just use a smooth cut file to break the edges and do a neat job.Finish up with a Dremel using Cratex wheels.
Personally, I don't see an issue except that bare steel rusts in the pocket. The hammer spring retaining pin is an example.
Herters Belgian Blue now sold by Brownells works.
Take a look at the Baby Browning 25 to see a bad muzzle.
I "dehorned" one completely as It was carried for years and made holes in pockets. All sharp edges and corners on slide and frame were rounded.
It retained blueing on all reworked edges.0 -
another problem with the kel Tec. Left handed shooters using a belt clip. Move the wrong way & the mag snaps out of battery . 0 -
Your post has nothing to do with this thread.
Besides, that's a shooter problem, not a gun problem.0 -
I'm not completely clear about what "corners" you are talking about, but if you are thinking about rounding (further than already rounded) the front of the slide, be aware that the square front of the slide on a semi-auto handgun can be a useful feature in an extreme situation:
A square corner on the front of the slide can be used to operate the slide "one-handed."
Using a sharp corner, like the heal of a shoe, or the edge of a table or door, one can push the slide back by "hooking" the front of the slide on that object's edge and pushing the gun forward. This could be used to chamber a round, or help to clear a jammed round using just one hand.
A small handgun like the LCP or P3AT is a "last resort" tool to protect oneself in an extremely dangerous situation. I wouldn't suggest modifying it (for aesthetic reasons?) and eliminating functionality.0 -
I'm not sure if you're talking about the P3AT or Baby Browning.
The P3AT slide spring is too stiff for one handed operation or kick start and the Baby can be loaded and unloaded one handed in the pocket without
involving the muzzle or corners. I did it for years so as to not enter school buildings with a charged pistol.
There's not enough frontal area on the Keltec to use it in charging against a hard surface.
I know a Russian who does a perfect 1/2 second kick start on a full size pistol.
You have to be good to bet your life on fancy tricks.0
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