where do scrape marks in the barrel come from???
in my derringers. never noticed it before, maybe because I always looked thru the breech to examine the bore after cleaning. you don't see them at all that way. this time I looked in the muzzle and saw them.
they are on all the lands, from the muzzle to the throat. in some places they look gouged. worse than the pictures. it's hard to get a camera in there to get a shot.
Davis D32 upper barrel
Davis D32 lower barrel
further in the lower barrel
Herters 357
in the 357 you can see the beginning of it. it's like that all the way down.
I know derringers may have looser tolerances than most barrels, does the bullet bounce around that much as it goes out the barrel, or what?
I use bronze bore brushes and I might have twisted it to make scrapes and gouges like that. but that shouldn't happen. or does it?
never shot anything but copper jacketed FMJ and soft point. no hard cast SWC or whatever. although I bought the 357 used and who knows what got shot out of it or how much, I bought the D32 new and I'm the only one to shoot it. about 200 rounds of FMJ. but they both have the same marks. that would suggest something that I'm doing.
on the other hand my Ruger LCP doesn't have this. but it's only been shot 100 times and had to clean it 3 times. I don't use a brush when oiling to keep the rust off. just a patch.
one thing I do, is leave them in the drawer oiled pretty good, and take them straight to the range without passing a patch through to get the oil out. I shoot them oily. didn't think it would hurt them. maybe the bullet goes down the barrel, strikes oil, gets hung up a little bit and the gases etch these into the barrel? but that wouldn't explain the marks all the way out to the end of the barrel.
what causes this?
are the barrels ruined or it doesn't matter?
think it can make a bullet get stuck in the barrel and kaboom?
is shooting them going to make it worse? (like driving with brake rotors that need to be turned, it only mnakes them worse)
has anybody else experienced this?
**********************
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
I can't imagine anything you did that would cause that. My thought is, just poor quality machining when they were manufactured.
I once owned a Hy Hunter derringer made in W Germany in the 1960's that was also crudely made. Herter's is from that same era, but I don't recall that they told buyers who made guns for them, but I believe they were also made in W Germany.
no gun would come from the factory like that. it's pretty bad.
I don't think it's due to soft metal, because it's supposed to be steel. (the Davis is zinc but has a steel sleeve) and that's why I was asking if anybody else heard of this.
the derringer I got says Herter's, but there are exact models that say "Western Derringer" instead. it's my understanding that there was a gun co. in Germany called Western. they made derringers, SAA's, etc. and must have exported some re-branded as Herter's.
you would be surprised how much the Germans and Eastern Europeans like that Wild West stuff. they just eat it up. the Bosnians I knew were always watching old western movies on tv (while drinking on the couch) and reading western dime novels written in their language. and for a bit of history, you would have been surprised at how many English settled in Texas, then amazed to discover that there were as many Germans and Czechs as there were English.
quote:Originally posted by yonson
Those are tool marks original to the bore when it was machined. Annular rings are from less-than-ideal barrel reaming, lengthwise roughness is from a similarly hasty rifling process. Would be very difficult to reproduce them by accident. Welcome to the world of high production. Could be smoothed out some by lapping.
I swear they weren't there when the D32 was new! (didn't notice them anyway) and I didn't see them on the 357 when I got it. do they really come from the factory like that?
*************************************
well most of y'all say they can come from the factory like that, except perry shooter, who says it's toast and who took a drill to it. I know that salty old fart's opinion is worth about 5 of yours so it's a tossup.
got on the phone and called "a manufacturer" of derringers (who will remain unnamed) sent them pics thru the email and they said...
they don't see anything wrong with it.
o-kay
they are on all the lands, from the muzzle to the throat. in some places they look gouged. worse than the pictures. it's hard to get a camera in there to get a shot.
Davis D32 upper barrel
Davis D32 lower barrel
further in the lower barrel
Herters 357
in the 357 you can see the beginning of it. it's like that all the way down.
I know derringers may have looser tolerances than most barrels, does the bullet bounce around that much as it goes out the barrel, or what?
I use bronze bore brushes and I might have twisted it to make scrapes and gouges like that. but that shouldn't happen. or does it?
never shot anything but copper jacketed FMJ and soft point. no hard cast SWC or whatever. although I bought the 357 used and who knows what got shot out of it or how much, I bought the D32 new and I'm the only one to shoot it. about 200 rounds of FMJ. but they both have the same marks. that would suggest something that I'm doing.
on the other hand my Ruger LCP doesn't have this. but it's only been shot 100 times and had to clean it 3 times. I don't use a brush when oiling to keep the rust off. just a patch.
one thing I do, is leave them in the drawer oiled pretty good, and take them straight to the range without passing a patch through to get the oil out. I shoot them oily. didn't think it would hurt them. maybe the bullet goes down the barrel, strikes oil, gets hung up a little bit and the gases etch these into the barrel? but that wouldn't explain the marks all the way out to the end of the barrel.
what causes this?
are the barrels ruined or it doesn't matter?
think it can make a bullet get stuck in the barrel and kaboom?
is shooting them going to make it worse? (like driving with brake rotors that need to be turned, it only mnakes them worse)
has anybody else experienced this?
**********************
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
I can't imagine anything you did that would cause that. My thought is, just poor quality machining when they were manufactured.
I once owned a Hy Hunter derringer made in W Germany in the 1960's that was also crudely made. Herter's is from that same era, but I don't recall that they told buyers who made guns for them, but I believe they were also made in W Germany.
no gun would come from the factory like that. it's pretty bad.
I don't think it's due to soft metal, because it's supposed to be steel. (the Davis is zinc but has a steel sleeve) and that's why I was asking if anybody else heard of this.
the derringer I got says Herter's, but there are exact models that say "Western Derringer" instead. it's my understanding that there was a gun co. in Germany called Western. they made derringers, SAA's, etc. and must have exported some re-branded as Herter's.
you would be surprised how much the Germans and Eastern Europeans like that Wild West stuff. they just eat it up. the Bosnians I knew were always watching old western movies on tv (while drinking on the couch) and reading western dime novels written in their language. and for a bit of history, you would have been surprised at how many English settled in Texas, then amazed to discover that there were as many Germans and Czechs as there were English.
quote:Originally posted by yonson
Those are tool marks original to the bore when it was machined. Annular rings are from less-than-ideal barrel reaming, lengthwise roughness is from a similarly hasty rifling process. Would be very difficult to reproduce them by accident. Welcome to the world of high production. Could be smoothed out some by lapping.
I swear they weren't there when the D32 was new! (didn't notice them anyway) and I didn't see them on the 357 when I got it. do they really come from the factory like that?
*************************************
well most of y'all say they can come from the factory like that, except perry shooter, who says it's toast and who took a drill to it. I know that salty old fart's opinion is worth about 5 of yours so it's a tossup.
got on the phone and called "a manufacturer" of derringers (who will remain unnamed) sent them pics thru the email and they said...
they don't see anything wrong with it.
o-kay
0
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soft metal, bad boreing of barrel what is the gun?? 0 -
Derringers are made, for close up work. (Think phone booth, If you still remember what a phone booth was?) The companies who still make them. Don't sweat a worn out rifling buttons, that should have been scrapped out last year. Needless to say it's all about the money, like everything else in the world. They aren't going to be buying new rifling buttons, for a 2" barreled derringer. 0 -
I can't imagine anything you did that would cause that. My thought is, just poor quality machining when they were manufactured.
I once owned a Hy Hunter derringer made in W Germany in the 1960's that was also crudely made. Herter's is from that same era, but I don't recall that they told buyers who made guns for them, but I believe they were also made in W Germany.
Neal0 -
Those are tool marks original to the bore when it was machined. Annular rings are from less-than-ideal barrel reaming, lengthwise roughness is from a similarly hasty rifling process. Would be very difficult to reproduce them by accident. Welcome to the world of high production. Could be smoothed out some by lapping. 0 -
As stated, these are tool marks from the bore machining process.
Before we jump right to the conclusion that this is poor quality work, let's define quality as an entities adherence to specification.
So, this level of rougness may be perfectly acceptable to the manufacturer, therefore, they have met their quality requirement.
Best thing you can do is not insert a borescope into anything except a hand lapped, new benchrest quality barrel. Otherwise you won't like what you see.
PS - this is not going to cause any problems in a pistol. Even in a rifle it would be acceptable for hunting.0 -
Darn looks like a TWIST drill was run down the bore.That barrel EVEN in a pistol will LEAD /Foul like crazy . I would get a new barrel before even firing a shot in that barrel it is toast in my opinion[V][xx(][:(][:(!] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
...worn out rifling buttons, that should have been scrapped out last year. Needless to say it's all about the money, like everything else in the world. They aren't going to be buying new rifling buttons, for a 2" barreled derringer.
There it is.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MG1890
As stated, these are tool marks from the bore machining process.
Before we jump right to the conclusion that this is poor quality work, let's define quality as an entities adherence to specification.
So, this level of rougness may be perfectly acceptable to the manufacturer, therefore, they have met their quality requirement.
Best thing you can do is not insert a borescope into anything except a hand lapped, new benchrest quality barrel. Otherwise you won't like what you see.
PS - this is not going to cause any problems in a pistol. Even in a rifle it would be acceptable for hunting.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS!^ The scratches are from drilling out the bore. It's not like every firearm gets the princess treatment, then tucked into bed after what gets done is done. Good enough, it goes. You should see an AK barrel then freak about how rough they are.
This is a derringer. A typically low volume of fire pistol that doesn't have serious accuracy requirements. Also, due to the low volume, low cleaning requirements. It's not going to see pressure problems it's whole life if it never gets cleaned.
That said, it certainly does grate our hides that like to see clean work done on a firearm inside and out.0 -
These photos exemplify the old adage "you get what you pay for"! 0 -
What kind of a 5 shot group does the derringer produce at 100 yards?
(or what kind of group do you expect from a 2 inch long barrel?)0
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