Colt Police Positive
The local pawn shop has recently added 4 Colt Police Positive revolvers to their display case. All show a patent date of July 4, 1905. One in particular is chambered 38 S&W, with a 6" bbl., s/n 866xx. This gun is parkerized. Could that be original? And if so is it rare and how would it effect value. The finish is 95% plus.
OldGuns55@yahoo.com
OldGuns55@yahoo.com
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I was visiting a lady in North Carolina and she showed me this revolver. It's a Police Positive in WRF. The serial # I believe is 32,3XX and the revolver is very tight, the blue's pretty fair and it seems to function O.K.
She got the gun and holster from her late uncle and knows nothing about it. I'm clueless about Colts, but would like to know the approximate age and value of this one. Also, is the WRF chambering less common? Any information would be appreciated. She's not interested in selling it. Thanks.
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First thing I would do, would be to carefully take the side plate off. Using the proper screwdrivers. Clean out all the accumulated, 70+ year old crud.
After getting it back together. Test it with snap caps in the chambers. The bolt should lock up into the cylinder, just after the trigger is pulled. Just prior to the hammer impact.
Timing on the old Colt revolvers. Is a can of worms. If there is, a timing problem. It requires a knowledgeable smith, who is familiar and has replacement parts for these old Colts.
EDIT #1,
A gunsmith has a special tool, called a "range rod". That is used to verify proper alignment of the cylinder and barrel.
This will address your concerns. If the cylinder and barrel are indexed correctly, when the hammer falls. And the cylinder can't be moved because the bolt is secure in the cylinders locking notch. Your good to go.0 -
I had previously removed the side panel and given it a through cleaning, along with the rear of the cylinder (there was 70 years of gunk in it). While I'm not an expert, it appears to me that the pawl that actually rotates the cylinder may be worn. I have no problem sending this across country for a proper repair, I was just hoping there might a qualified individual locally. 0 -
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Colt-33188/Revolvers-35751/DFrame-37997/PolicePositive-35911.htm?results=All
Inspect both part #24 hand and #30 ratchet. Also look at the #2 bolt and the bolt notches in the cylinder. The pins screws etc. that these ride in/on is important as the working surfaces.0 -
Part #24 is my primary concern, but it is possible that something is not moving it the necessary distance. 0 -
OK, so the cylinder falls short of locking upon cocking the hammer. How about when the trigger is pressed? Does it go ahead and lock up before the hammer falls? That feature was one of Colt's big selling points. 0 -
Now my wires are really crossed. When the hammer is cocked, it is only a micron from locking. When the trigger is pulled the cylinder does fall into the lock notch, but I can't tell if it's vibration or the cylinder actually turning. Is there anyway to actually tell? I've never actually shot this weapon because I was concerned about safety. I had never heard that this might be a normal condition, but I'd like to be certain before I start pouring the coal to it. 0 -
Guys, I'm going to bump this up one last time to see if I can get a clarification on Nunn's comment. How can I tell if the cylinder timing is actually safe and the way it was intended to work? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Snigley
Guys, I'm going to bump this up one last time to see if I can get a clarification on Nunn's comment. How can I tell if the cylinder timing is actually safe and the way it was intended to work?
Might consider reading with comprehension. The edit I added to my original post. Course if you have problems with your cognition? Might not do any good.[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Snigley
Now my wires are really crossed. When the hammer is cocked, it is only a micron from locking. When the trigger is pulled the cylinder does fall into the lock notch, but I can't tell if it's vibration or the cylinder actually turning. Is there anyway to actually tell? I've never actually shot this weapon because I was concerned about safety. I had never heard that this might be a normal condition, but I'd like to be certain before I start pouring the coal to it.
The Colt uses a two stage hand. The 1st (top) gets the cylinder moving and the 2nd stage (lower) pushes it to full locking, moving & holding the cylinder in place as the trigger is pressed. Note the hand is on the trigger, that final press up moves it into position. You can also probably get it into position by thumb cocking all the way to the rear - the hammer will "lift" the trigger just enough to make the distance.
Fitting a Colt hand is more difficult than a Smith & Wesson. Further, Colt parts have a higher degree of interdependence than Smiths, Rugers, etc. And a new hand may move the cylinder too soon, before the cylinder bolt drops, causing hesitation and will be felt via the trigger.
With a tight action the cylinder bolt will drop into place on a slow thumb cocking of the hammer, you'll feel a slight "rub" on the hammer if you then slowly lower it with your thumb. That means the SA sear notch is releasing just as the 2nd stage of the hand "locks" the cylinder in place. Most Colts have some kind of wear
It sounds like your hand is just a touch tired, not by much, and should be perfectly safe to shoot. On occasion slight peening of the 2nd stage of the hand gives just enough lift to make the cylinder cut. But keep in mind the only difference between "whacking it with a hammer" and "peening" is the ability of the person wielding the hammer - it's basically the same thing, with (unfortunately) differing result.
Since you've already removed the sideplate once it may be interesting to remove it again, then put the cylinder back in place. If you slowly, in a controlled manner thumb cock the hammer with the sideplate off you'll easily see the hand's interaction with the cylinder ratchet. Just be sure to hold the hand in place as it rides on the corner of the frame opening. It has a tendency to work out. If it does just lift the rebound lever a bit and reseat the hand stem.0
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