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Pre 64 Model 70 257 Rob firing pin extractor prob

hallobay
I have a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in 257 Roberts caliber. Upon inheriting the rifle I checked headspace and the bolt just started to come up against the field gage. I then attempted to fire several rounds of factory produced ammunition with no success. The primer would be dimpled and the case would not extract. Without being able to fire a round, it is going to be difficult to see if this might be a headspace problem, but then that does not explain the lack of extraction. Extraction does not occur regardless if the round is magazine fed or placed directly in the chamber. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated including where to send for repair
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • Ray Boone
    I'm a little confused with the symptoms. Things to check: 1, remove the bolt from the rifle. Place a cartridge head against the edge of the boltface (as it would be in the magazine) and see if the cartridge will slide along the boltface with the extractor slipping into the groove of the cartridge. It may be that the extractor is pushing the cartridge into the chamber and not dropping into the groove, which would cause the extraction problem. 2. to check excess headspace without a gauge, cut pieces of thin metal (copper sheeting is best, but if you're careful so that it doesn't get torn, aluminum foil will work) into pieces the shape of the cartridge base. Place the cartridge in the chamber, place a thin metal piece on the cartridge head, carefully close/turn the bolt. If the bolt will close with the "shims" of metal adding to the cartridge length, then there is a problem with too much space.
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  • MG1890
    If excess headspace is the culprit, it could be caused by cartridges that are to minimum spec or shorter. I'd try different ammo before you do anything else.

    Is there a reason to believe that an excellent rifle like a pre 64 model 70 would have a chamber problem?
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  • hallobay
    I have removed the bolt and fed an empty case into the bolt head as it would pick it up from the magazine. In doing this, the case seemed to be held properly in place.

    The "no-go gage" allows the bolt to close, the "field garge" does also but you can feel the boltface coming up against it as it closes. So it appears there is headspace, but are the firing pin and extractor problems then related?
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  • hallobay
    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    If excess headspace is the culprit, it could be caused by cartridges that are to minimum spec or shorter. I'd try different ammo before you do anything else.

    Is there a reason to believe that an excellent rifle like a pre 64 model 70 would have a chamber problem?


    The bore is bright and smooth with lands and grooves showing good. Could the rifle have been subjected to heavy loads is unknown. it is looking like a UPS trip to a good Winchester gunsmith. Any suggestions?
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  • hallobay
    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    If excess headspace is the culprit, it could be caused by cartridges that are to minimum spec or shorter. I'd try different ammo before you do anything else.

    Is there a reason to believe that an excellent rifle like a pre 64 model 70 would have a chamber problem?


    Unless you are indicating chamber problem like ...somebody desired a 257 Ackley Improved instead of the rifles original 257 Roberts
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  • tsr1965
    hallobay,

    Typical problem with the extraction, is the edge of the extractor is broken or chipped. This happens, because the unknowing, drop a round in the chamber, then close the bolt on it. These, and the Mauser 98's are not designed to do that...they are a controlled round feed, meaning the extractor picks up the cartridge from the magazine.

    Secondly, I suspect this rifle was in long term storage, and has a lot of hard, gunky oil on it...even inside the bolt. It needs to be completely disassembled and cleaned...even the inside of the bolt, and possibly under/around the extractor, and chamber.

    I have never heard of a Model 70 of that era, going out of headspace, unless it has been hampered with. I would take it to a professional, who knows the Model70, for a good scrubbing. Then re-evaluate your symptoms.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    quote:I did not disassemble the bolt, but did attempt to flush it with Gun Scrubber best I could.

    Sorry, but that simply is not good enough. The bolt needs to be taken apart, and scrubbed internally, and maybe even the spring replaced if it has been stored for years, in the compressed state.

    Unless the chamber has ben altered, and or neglected, I see no other problems, that could give those symptoms.

    Best

    EDIT 2

    quote:I believe that is the best answer, unfortunately we have no gunsmiths locally and must send rifle out to somewhere. Most of the fellows up north (Anchorage) seem to be all caught up in sniper rifles and plastic type guns so I am looking for a smith that appreciates wood, bluing and honorable workmanship, even if I have to send the rifle to the States.

    If that is the case, they will know this rifle...it is known on the global scale as the rifleman's rifle.

    Best
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  • MG1890
    Tell us about the ammo, please. Are the primers punched nicely?

    Maybe remove the striker assembly from the bolt and clean it? 60+ years of dried up grease and rust inside the bolt can cause misfires like you describe.

    Quite honestly, I think that you are barking up the wrong tree on the headspace thing. With that claw extractor grabbing the rim, the cartridge should fire no matter how deep the chamber is.

    I think you should disassemble the bolt and clean the striker..
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  • hallobay
    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    Tell us about the ammo, please. Are the primers punched nicely?

    Maybe remove the striker assembly from the bolt and clean it? 60+ years of dried up grease and rust inside the bolt can cause misfires like you describe.


    There is no rust anywhere visible on the rifle. I did not disassemble the bolt, but did attempt to flush it with Gun Scrubber best I could. I removed the stock from the action and there was signs of some kind of oil/grease in areas which could lead one to think it could be in the bolt assembly as well. I cleaned the bolt face and under the extractor, but it was relatively clean to start with. Primers get a fair (could be better) primer strike. I put a thinner pistol primer into a case and attempted to fire, same result, no bang 9 out of 10 times.
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  • charliemeyer007
    I think you would be best served by taking it to your local good gunsmith for a hands on inspection. A chamber cast seems like a good plan if inspection and perhaps a bolt cleaning don't provide some answers.

    added I think a knowledgeable gun guy could figure it out. If you have to send it away, I would invest some e-mail and phone time to find the right smith and insure the heck out of it.
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  • hallobay
    quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
    I think you would be best served by taking it to your local good gunsmith for a hands on inspection. A chamber cast seems like a good plan if inspection and perhaps a bolt cleaning don't provide some answers.


    I believe that is the best answer, unfortunately we have no gunsmiths locally and must send rifle out to somewhere. Most of the fellows up north (Anchorage) seem to be all caught up in sniper rifles and plastic type guns so I am looking for a smith that appreciates wood, bluing and honorable workmanship, even if I have to send the rifle to the States.
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