1911 Aluminum frame vs Steel frame
So since aluminum is softer than steel (stainless and other steels), does this mean an aluminum 1911 45acp frame will wear faster than a steel frame where the slide and rail meet over an extended period of time/use? If so, would this cause "slop" and therefore a less accurate gun? Just trying to determine whether my next 1911 should have a stainless steel or an aluminum frame. I already have a stainless model, but I'm considering a custom aluminum frame too.
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Aluminum has a place in a carry gun but NOWHERE ELSE Yes it will wear faster Yes it is more prone to cracks Yes it does produce more FELT recoil to the shooter because it's lighter weight. 0 -
I put over 10,000rds through a Para P-14 in USPSA matches with no loosening seen in it, or cracking.
NOW the Colt Commander I had is a different story [xx(]0 -
a great deal of the answer to this question revolves around what you intend to use the pistol for. If this is going to be a match gun with thousands of rounds, both practice and competition, fired then the only choice is steel. If this is to be a carry piece then the weight savings of aluminum is worth considering - "Carried a lot shot a little" 0 -
quote:Originally posted by floorguy24
So since aluminum is softer than steel (stainless and other steels), does this mean an aluminum 1911 45acp frame will wear faster than a steel frame where the slide and rail meet over an extended period of time/use? If so, would this cause "slop" and therefore a less accurate gun? Just trying to determine whether my next 1911 should have a stainless steel or an aluminum frame. I already have a stainless model, but I'm considering a custom aluminum frame too.
To be clear, some aluminum alloys are harder than some grades of steel, though in general your statement above is correct.
The "answer" is that aluminum frames are mainly intended to save weight. IE, they're for CARRY. If you don't intend to carry this particular gun concealed, I don't think there is a good reason to go with aluminum. If you do want to save weight for carry, Al is one option, and so is polymer.
In exchange for lighter weight, the tradeoffs of an aluminum frame include increased recoil (which also potentially means decreased RATE of fire), POTENTIALLY faster wear, and (perhaps) greater likelihood of frame cracking. Note that how long a gun ACTUALLY lasts depends on a lot of other factors: gun design, load power, spring strength, etc.
Empirically speaking, SOME aluminum frame handguns last for many tens of thousands of rounds (ie more rounds than 99.5% of shooters will ever put through them). The 92 model Berettas are one example of these. Some AL frames guns don't hold up so well.
In terms of accuracy, there is no fundamental reason why an aluminum framed gun can't be as INTRINSICALLY accurate as a steel one. All ELSE being equal, if you locked the aluminum framed gun into a mechanical rest it could be as accurate as its steel counterpart.
However, in the real world, lighter guns offer more "wobble" in the hand and tend to be less accurate. Shooters who are interested in max accuracy (ie competitive target shooters) are usually looking for ways to INCREASE the weight of their gun for this reason! That's part of the reason for bull barrels, barrel weights, etc.
Increased recoil can also detract a bit from accuracy. It "shouldn't" because if you have perfect form, the recoil mostly occurs after the bullet has already left the muzzle, but in reality most people are imperfect shooters. [;)]0 -
I'll take aluminum over plastic if I can't get steel. 0 -
Thank you all for your input, very helpful and appreciated. I'm good to go now. 
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quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
I'll take aluminum over plastic if I can't get steel.
That wasn't the question, but I think its a good one.
In my opinion, the question of polymer vs aluminum is mostly a question of personal preference/taste. Both aluminum and polymer frame autos have been around for a *LONG* time and are fairly time-proven by now. EG, Colt commander 1911 was introduced in 1950(!), and Glock in 1980. Empirically, both DO work, or at least CAN, if built right. There are several polymer 1911s out there now (though never having tried one, I can't endorse/refute any).
There are people who assume "metal" is always better than "plastic", but I really just don't think that's the case anymore.
First of all, most polymer frame guns aren't really "pure" polymer. For example, Glocks use a hardened steel frame insert for the slide to ride in. So even though its a "polymer" gun, you've really got steel riding on steel for the parts that wear (not steel on plastic). The steel insert on a Glock is harder than most pure aluminum frames, and should wear slower. Empirically, these steel inserts last a *LONG* time. . .I've seen Glocks with over 50,000 rounds through them.
Next, the polymer itself isn't some kind of "Mattel toy" plastic, but specialty nylon composite. Some of the makers (eg Ruger, NOT Glock) use nylon with inlaid glass fibers, making the frames tougher. I think it remains to be seen how long these frames last, but again, empirically from Glocks in service, the answer is at least 30 years!
The polymer frames are partly elastic. Some say, this helps absorb recoil. I think, more important, that makes them extremely impact resistant. These polymer guns can survive drops onto hard surfaces that metallic frame guns may not. The polymers in question are also extremely chemical and salt corrosion resistant, giving them a potential advantage over aluminum or other alloy metals.
Polymer, of course, is also cheaper, and that may potentially be an advantage.
Bottom line, you may prefer aluminum for aesthetic or other reasons, but I wouldn't entirely dismiss polymer out of hand. There are reasons why polymer framed guns have become so popular in civlian, military, and police circles, and its not JUST because they cost less.0 -
Another thing to note is that not all polymer framed guns are the same. Some use steel rails molded into the polymer. Others use a steel receiver/fire control unit, in those guns the polymer frame is basically just the grip and mag well and even if it breaks, it can easily be replaced. 0 -
Watch the kind of ammunition that you use in an aluminum-framed gun. I've had steel-jacketed ball ammunition start to pound dents into the feed ramp of some guns with aluminum frames. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
I'll take aluminum over plastic if I can't get steel.
That wasn't the question, but I think its a good one.
In my opinion, the question of polymer vs aluminum is mostly a question of personal preference/taste. Both aluminum and polymer frame autos have been around for a *LONG* time and are fairly time-proven by now. EG, Colt commander 1911 was introduced in 1950(!), and Glock in 1980. Empirically, both DO work, or at least CAN, if built right. There are several polymer 1911s out there now (though never having tried one, I can't endorse/refute any).
There are people who assume "metal" is always better than "plastic", but I really just don't think that's the case anymore.
First of all, most polymer frame guns aren't really "pure" polymer. For example, Glocks use a hardened steel frame insert for the slide to ride in. So even though its a "polymer" gun, you've really got steel riding on steel for the parts that wear (not steel on plastic). The steel insert on a Glock is harder than most pure aluminum frames, and should wear slower. Empirically, these steel inserts last a *LONG* time. . .I've seen Glocks with over 50,000 rounds through them.
Next, the polymer itself isn't some kind of "Mattel toy" plastic, but specialty nylon composite. Some of the makers (eg Ruger, NOT Glock) use nylon with inlaid glass fibers, making the frames tougher. I think it remains to be seen how long these frames last, but again, empirically from Glocks in service, the answer is at least 30 years!
The polymer frames are partly elastic. Some say, this helps absorb recoil. I think, more important, that makes them extremely impact resistant. These polymer guns can survive drops onto hard surfaces that metallic frame guns may not. The polymers in question are also extremely chemical and salt corrosion resistant, giving them a potential advantage over aluminum or other alloy metals.
Polymer, of course, is also cheaper, and that may potentially be an advantage.
Bottom line, you may prefer aluminum for aesthetic or other reasons, but I wouldn't entirely dismiss polymer out of hand. There are reasons why polymer framed guns have become so popular in civlian, military, and police circles, and its not JUST because they cost less.
Be careful about chemicals with polymers....if I really need to deep clean a metal gun I will spray it with dechlorinated brake cleaner....do that to a poly gun aND it may melt.0
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