585 HE Continued.......
Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work.
The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.
About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work.
The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.
About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed
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Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....
Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..
Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done
clear up to 550 gr...
So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt,
And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..
Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed0 -
Here is sectioned 585 HE case in the middle, we first made from
another case, years ago before we had factory run of brass and
it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.
We could fire them many times without sides thinning..
First case is factory run of our 585 HE, 3rd is case that is too
thick of sides and sticks at high pressures..
Pic of our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times
at high pressure on the right, with unfired case on the left.
Our case is not perfect but does work...Ed0 -
About 416 cal bullets............
The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullet,
and 520 gr 9.5 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Some barrels I picked up are 10 to 1.......
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better
long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier 550 gr bullets for ELR.
Making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin,
like our hollow base 585 cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist, or less
while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1 to stabilise them..............
The winner of the King Of 2 Mile shoot last week was using 416 Barrett with a 1 to 10
twist, with a 500 gr CEB Lazer bullet, ...Robert Brantley, with Manners Stocks....
Paul Philips was third with a 416...
GOOD NEWS-- There is now an importer and seller of our 585 HE brass getting set up here,
in US, hopefully will be in stock, few weeks........ http://bertrambrass.com .. .. Caleb Hallet..
Have got another intermediate size action besides the Montana PH our guys working on,
to do speed testingwith. It is big long REM style action that can take our 416 HSM, ED0 -
Experimental intermediate size action with the Montana PH, for comparison.
It is an experimental action for our 416 HSM, to do our speed testing with
and get a better action than Cheytac size actions, for bigger case ELR use,
without going all way up to more expensive, huge actions.
It is big long round style action that can take our 416 HSM, almost
1.6" diameter and .800" bolt, with locking lugs nearly as big as most
BMG actions.... ED0 -
Here is picture of the bolt from the experimental action,
with our 416 HSM case in it. Note the amount of the
base size of locking lugs, the amount of area on the bolt..
Here is link to guy doing special 585 HE in the EU,
Good pictures............www.585he.cz
We tested intermediate action with a 700HE barrel we had here.
Just temporary to test strength. 1000 gr over 3100..
Action worked fine.. Ed.0 -
Here is video of early water barrel test of the
12ga From Hell, from years ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c48zTpsgbuk
Here is picture from that video..
Here is the intermediate size action for 416 HSM with test barrel, .Ed0 -
In 416 HSM got a 415 gr long target bullet 3800,
with plain barrel, no brake, on intermediate action,
Now my 416 HE gets same 415gr bullet to 3300.Ed0 -
Here is picture of our 416HSM cases with screw in shellholders,
for Ammomaster, etc, and slip in shellholders for regular presses
Also have some for big LEE Classic and Smart Reloader presses..
A 378 WEA MAG in picture for comparison...
Second is stacks of 416 HSM, about a third fireformed
and the rest to be fireformed... So far total about 1700, Ed0 -
Bob Snapp, 90, the great Gun Craftsman, of
Clare, Michigan, passed away Jan 28th....
He was an esteemed member of the
American Custom Gunmakers Guild,
Being its president in 1992..He liked
working with Martini Cadet singleshot rifles
.Worked with guys testing armor long time ago.
Maybe the 1st to do 20mm necked down
to 50cal, a true wildcatter....Ed0 -
.....
It is possible rig up holders for many types setups.,
About shellholder supply for big cases,
RCBS and others make slip in holders for shotgun cases
that can work or reworked for big rimmed rifle cases...
Here are various sizes.......
16ga-- .810" rim,........ 20ga-- .760" rim,....
24ga-- .725" rim,....... 28ga .680" rim....
Ch4d and Buffalo Arms also have these larger shellholders...
We fireform the 416 HSM with 65 gr of medium speed
surplus powder, with rest of case filled with farina
and grits mix, with a play dough plug in the neck.
It is loud, so we shoot it into big container through a barrel size
size hole, so the sound is muffled, so it doesn't deafen us..
It is great getting more companies making 416 caliber bullets,
long target and bore rider bullets. Ed..
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Wonder if a PTRD with 5 ft long barrel is stable enough
for ELR , rebarrel to 416 and use our 416 HSM, 500 gr bullet ....
.Here is up north guy using 585 HE in a PTRD with inserts,
Light load.....Inserts are in the shape of the 14.5mm case....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyabm-cbwgc&feature=youtu.be
HERE ia video, 585 Hubel Express and water jugs - slow motion
750 gr with 155gr RE17, just a moderate load.....Edhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXAo1mJqw8Y0 -
20mm Vulcan is a big case that works ok, without having
the sides made too thick...They have thinner sides
than smaller cases guys are getting that have the sides
made too thick and won't extract easy or work with high pressures.
Here Barnard P Cheytac bolt that would do for our 416 HSM..Ed......0 -
Got guys doing various 416 HEs..
One just built a 416 HE, just been testing it a few days..
And using 168gr of HBMG 475 gr CEB, tested it, in good
conditions, 2 shots at 1800 yards and was within
a 1/4 of minute accuracy...A few shots at shorter ranges
had same accuracy. Ed..0 -
More about our 416 HSM from BMG brass, and
our 416 HE & 460 HE from our 585 HE cases
Got reamers for 375 HE, 416 HE and 416 HSM,....
460 HE & 460 HSM are all spec'd, got HE reamer
soon have HSM reamer...Our HSMs have a Wea type
radius on the shoulder..
The fellow that set up our 416 HE in an ELR rifle
and got 1/4 min accuracy,
They got some game out west over 1400 yds..
.Here is the gun they set up.
Using a K&P 34" barrel on a BAT action.....Ed0 -
And have got 460 HSM specs setup, the impetus for that is some
asking about one and new great line of 458 bullets CEB now has.
It will hold more powder than the 416 HSM and will get
a 572 gr as fast as 416 HSM gets a 475gr.....Ed..0 -
The guys that did the super accurate 416 HE did another416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..Used a Stiller action and same load with 475 gr bullet, as infirst gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy.3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.And loads they used are not the highest speed loadsthe cartridge is capable of....Here is print with specs forthe 416 HE reamer chamber ....Ed....0 -
The guys that did the super accurate 416 HE did another416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..Used a Stiller action and same load with 475 gr bullet, as infirst gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy.3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.And loads they used are not the highest speed loadsthe cartridge is capable of....Here is reamer print
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More about he guys that did the accurate 416 HE, they did a416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..Used longer barrel and the same load with 475 gr bullet, as usedin the first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy,.3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.And loads they used are not the highest speed loadsthe cartridge is capable of....Here is picture.......Ed....0
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Here is print with chamber reamer specs for the416 HSM chamber..There are 3 base sizes we have,depending on actions used. Got reamers for all 3..Got cases for all of them..Our cases are public domain, so that is why I postinfo and specs. Manson makes reamers I use,,, Ed.0
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Here is reamer print with chamber reamer specs forthe 460 HSM chamber .Couple guys getting setto do 38-40 inch heavy 458 target barrels...Ed....0
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With 40 inch barrel 416 HSM ,475 gr, get 3650, over 13,000 ft lbs muzzle energy.Got guys getting set to have 38-40 inch 458 barrels made for 460 HSM.Ed..0
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More info on this gun, we did it for testing 416 HSM with a rebated rim,to check in intermediate size actions, with the longer, stronger, bolt lugs, Ed..0
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Here is experimental action for 416 HSM in a heavystock....We lengthened port a little, set bolt stop back ,opened bolt face fit the 416 HSM rebated rim. Ed.Here is comparison of Montana PH to Pierce action wemodified to use for rebated rim 416 HSM testing..Ed.0
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416 & 460 HE AND 416 & 460 HSM .LONG RANGE AND HUNTING
Can be set up in Pierce X10 ACTION for the 416 & 460 HE
AND X20 action for the 416 & 460 HSM , Can get those
if guys need one...Ed
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Here is picture of my 416 HSM test gun,... It is a big falling block we had
as a 8 bore years ago. Has a 34 inch , 1 5/8 "diameter, 1 to 10 twist barrel. .. Ed.
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The link to the picture doesn't seem to work.
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