Thompson contender question (Gruntled)
This question got tacked onto the end of a different thread:
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=682715
quote:
gruntled
Advanced Member
9793 Posts
Posted - 10/14/2016 : 3:15:14 PM
I have a 14" Thompson Contender barrel that someone shrink fitted an extension on to make it over 16". Is that enough to be able to use a shoulder stock or what else do I need?
To be clear, the question is whether or not you "may" put this barrel onto a gun with a shoulder stock LEGALLY, without Federally registering the gun as a short barrelled rifle?
My opinion is "no".
BATFE is very particular when it comes to this short of thing, and they typically require that a barrel extension be both welded and pinned into place, so its effectively a permanent part of the barrel and not removable short of some destructive method.
While if it really came down to it, they they might accept other ways of permanently attaching the attachment (ie I think they'd have a hard time arguing against a really solid weld even if it didn't also have a pin), I don't think a "shrink" or interference fit is good enough.
The problem is that someone might be able to knock the extension off with a good solid blow from a hammer or otherwise twist it off. If the BATFE ever had a chance to examine your gun and wanted to make a case here, they'd bring it into their workshop, their "gunsmith" would place the barrel in a vice and remove the extension using "gentle" pressure (ie repeated blows with a sledgehammer), and you'd be invited to an extended stay at a Federal hospitality suite with free courtesy meals.
What do you need to do to make this legal? Assuming you don't want to go through the cost and hassle of filing paperwork for this, I think the simplest and easiest thing would be to pin and weld the extension into place.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=682715
quote:
gruntled
Advanced Member
9793 Posts
Posted - 10/14/2016 : 3:15:14 PM
I have a 14" Thompson Contender barrel that someone shrink fitted an extension on to make it over 16". Is that enough to be able to use a shoulder stock or what else do I need?
To be clear, the question is whether or not you "may" put this barrel onto a gun with a shoulder stock LEGALLY, without Federally registering the gun as a short barrelled rifle?
My opinion is "no".
BATFE is very particular when it comes to this short of thing, and they typically require that a barrel extension be both welded and pinned into place, so its effectively a permanent part of the barrel and not removable short of some destructive method.
While if it really came down to it, they they might accept other ways of permanently attaching the attachment (ie I think they'd have a hard time arguing against a really solid weld even if it didn't also have a pin), I don't think a "shrink" or interference fit is good enough.
The problem is that someone might be able to knock the extension off with a good solid blow from a hammer or otherwise twist it off. If the BATFE ever had a chance to examine your gun and wanted to make a case here, they'd bring it into their workshop, their "gunsmith" would place the barrel in a vice and remove the extension using "gentle" pressure (ie repeated blows with a sledgehammer), and you'd be invited to an extended stay at a Federal hospitality suite with free courtesy meals.
What do you need to do to make this legal? Assuming you don't want to go through the cost and hassle of filing paperwork for this, I think the simplest and easiest thing would be to pin and weld the extension into place.
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That causes me to wonder if the welding would damage the barrel?
I'm not worried about possessing the shoulder stock since I have a legal length 45/70 barrel. It is a shame I can't use the stock on my 30-30 barrel. I would also like to extend my .223 barrel.
Would it cost as much to have someone do this as it would cost to just buy new barrels?0 -
Bullberry makes custom barrels in the lengths you are looking for, for the Contender, and Encore. If you look around you might find the Super 16 barrels for the Contender, in 22, 22 Hornet, 223, 33, 35 Remington, and 44 magnum....perhaps a few others too.
EDIT 1
quote:And we don't know if this is an older Contender, which most certainly started life as a rifle...
This is not true, as the original exception to the rule for the BATF was the original TC Contender Carbine kit where you could change it to a rifle and back to a pistol. The original Contenders, or at least the early ones, were most ALWAYS handguns, as they started life.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gruntled
That causes me to wonder if the welding would damage the barrel?
I'm not worried about possessing the shoulder stock since I have a legal length 45/70 barrel. It is a shame I can't use the stock on my 30-30 barrel. I would also like to extend my .223 barrel.
Would it cost as much to have someone do this as it would cost to just buy new barrels?
Pinning and welding a brake to a shorter than 16" barrel is fairly common with the AR 15. I have one, no issues. On the T/C barrel I suppose it would depend on barrel thickness and how heavy handed a gunsmith may be. I tend to think ruining a barrel at the muzzle with heat would take some effort.
This is a bit of a guess, but threading a barrel probably runs about $75.00 on the lower end. You can probably find a gunsmith who will thread, pin & weld for about $125.00.
The 30.30 is pretty common, I'd spend a bit more and buy a new (used) rifle length barrel.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gruntled
That causes me to wonder if the welding would damage the barrel?
Well, its supposed to permanently bond the extension to the barrel, and of course you are drilling a HOLE in the barrel to put the pink into, so yes, that's "damage" in a sense.
But assuming its done competently, I wouldn't worry about it ruining the barrel steel or rifling, if that's what you're asking about. People do this all the time with ARs. . .doesn't hurt anything.
quote:
I'm not worried about possessing the shoulder stock since I have a legal length 45/70 barrel.
So now you're talking about "constructive possession". IE, owning parts that "could" be assembled into an illegal configuration gun.
BATFE has recently relaxed its rule about "once a rifle always a rifle" and now permits people to go from rifle to pistol and back again on the same frame, so long as the gun is never in an illegal configuration. So I think you're "OK" here.
quote:
It is a shame I can't use the stock on my 30-30 barrel. I would also like to extend my .223 barrel. Would it cost as much to have someone do this as it would cost to just buy new barrels?
Well, it "should" cost less to weld on a barrel extension than buy a whole new barrel, *BUT* don't forget you can defray the cost of a new barrel by selling the old one.
I think if you do it that way, you'll end up spending less net cash. . .but it might be a bit more work. You might also find someone who wants to swap barrels with you, if you look.
In terms of absolute cost, depends who does it, and what exactly they do. You'd have to price this out, but I think you'd be doing pretty well to get this done for under $100.
For a standard AR-15, where there is no real fitting, just pin + spot weld, you can get this done for as little as $40. EG see here: https://www.rainierarms.com/pinning-welding0 -
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Regarding "constructive possession" while "once a rifle always a rifle" no longer applies IF the firearm was originally a handgun or 4473'd as "other" I think caution should apply. IF the only items possessed are a shoulder stocked frame and barrel fewer than 16", and the owner possesses or controls no items that would make the firearm a legally configured handgun, I would say he has an SBR. I suppose he could remove the buttstock and assert he fires the darn thing sans grip & by holding the stud .... but, ouch.
Of course having the +16" 45/70 barrel is the out, in this case.
And we don't know if this is an older Contender, which most certainly started life as a rifle, as opposed to a G2 that may have been a handgun or other.
Those darn Canadians get to have SBRs, why can't we? [:(!]
Edit: My mistake [}:)]- older Contenders (Cougar) are handguns.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Bullberry makes custom barrels in the lengths you are looking for, for the Contender, and Encore. If you look around you might find the Super 16 barrels for the Contender, in 22, 22 Hornet, 223, 33, 35 Remington, and 44 magnum....perhaps a few others too.
EDIT 1
quote:And we don't know if this is an older Contender, which most certainly started life as a rifle...
This is not true, as the original exception to the rule for the BATF was the original TC Contender Carbine kit where you could change it to a rifle and back to a pistol. The original Contenders, or at least the early ones, were most ALWAYS handguns, as they started life.
Hi Tim - You're right. I don't know how I got that little "brain fart", I have two "Cougar" Contenders sitting in my gun room with pistol barrels attached, the 35 Rem and an octagon 10 44 Magnum. My boss always told me to stay of f the forums when I'm at work.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
as little as $40. EG see here: https://www.rainierarms.com/pinning-welding
I called them but was told they only work on AR- 15 type rifles.
Would like to hear of others who might do this work. I tried looking online for rifle barrels but the prices are in the stratosphere.
For what they want for a barrel you might as well buy a complete rifle.
I guess I was spoiled since the most I ever paid was $150 for any of my five barrels & I had to think long & hard before I paid that much but that was quite a few years ago when used barrels seemed to be much more common.0 -
Only places I see Contender/G2 rifle barrels "cheap" is Natchez or Midsouth, and they're still twice what you wanna pay.
Good news is that your old barrels are worth more, too.0 -
Mine is an encore, but I have found decent prices here on GunBroker, by being patient and setting up saved searches for the barrels I wanted. You will probably not find any for $40, and $150 only on the most common used barrels. 0
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