Auction Details - Imformation Missing
Folks,
I recently made the purchase of an older firearm off the site. Upon receiving the firearm, I found certain items not mentioned on the description. Below is the auction:
http://www.GunBroker.com/item/558744097
This is the description:
Out of the old west and up for auction is this handsome 1873 Winchester .32-20 made in 1892. Serial # 408822B. Above average condition with beautiful woodgrain and appears all original except for forend screws which appear replaced. The metal is worn to a silver and plum color with normal abrasions. It has a 24" barrel with a good bore which is a little dark but has good rifling and no pitting. The rifle works fine mechanically and shoots well with black powder ammo. This rifle is an antique and can ship directly to your home for a fixed rate of $50 ground shipping and insurance. Please ask all questions before bidding as ALL SALES ARE FINAL. This is a NO RESERVE auction starting at .01. Payment by USPMO or Cashiers check. Please see my other NO RESERVE auctions. Thank you.
Upon receiving the rifle, I sent the following email to the seller:
The package was received on Tuesday. I was out if the office for the afternoon, so I found the package in my office on Wednesday morning.
The manner in which the rifle was shipped was perfect and I could not ask for better. However, upon handling the rifle I found a couple of concerns.
The add on GunBroker did not mention the dust cover being loose, and was certainly not mentioned being loose to the point that it would slide back and forth as the rifle was turned from the horizontal to ventricle position. Additionally, the add did not mention the fact that the magazine tube was not attached properly to the underside of the barrel close to the muzzle. Also, no mention was made that there appeared to be an old repair made to this location, which obviously was no longer holding. Lastly, I am unable to confirm with certainty, only speculation, but the wood has most likely been sanded and refinished at some point over its 124 service. I believe this to be accurate because the wood is no longer "proud", and not raised slightly higher than the metal components of the rifle.
Of the items mentioned above, the tube no longer connected properly to the barrel is my biggest concern. I hope the dust cover can be brought back to working order with a little effort. In the event the wood has been refinished, the coloration of the wood is aged well, and the wood does have good grain.
Had the items above been mentioned in the auction, I doubt I would've bid on the rifle, let alone purchased it for $1200.
Sorry to send an email such as this, but I wanted you to be aware of my concerns. Please respond at your earliest convenience and let me know your thoughts on the matter.
Sellers response:
Glad to hear the rifle arrived safely. I own a collection of antique Winchesters. One of the items you mentioned was the 124 years of service. Over that many years who knows what has been done to the rifle? One of my favorite 1873 rifles has a dust cover which slides up and down every
Time I handle it. I honestly did not see the repair on the magazine you spoke of. This rifle was taken to a gunsmith and the magazine spring was replaced. He never mentioned the tube being loose. They test-fired it and then I shot it several times and it cycled properly. I bought the rifle on GunBroker for over $1600 and that was before
I paid to have the spring put in. I do not feel you overpaid for the rifle. As I mentioned, I am a collector, not a Winchester expert. My experience has been that most of these antique rifles have some kind of problems when I buy them. I have had 2 of them discharge when I closed the lever!
There is a reason many ads advise they are taken to a gunsmith before shooting them. That being said I still enjoy and collect them. If I sell one I make sure it is mechanically sound and describe it to the best of my ability. I am sorry if you are displeased but I am sure you can sell the rifle and
Upgrade to a better one if that is your desire. Just remember you are buying a very old rifle with a long history of use and repairs. Best wishes, Dan
Question....I am not satisfied with the seller's comments, and not particularly happy that the seller thinks it's OK to sell items without an accurate disclosure.
Any thoughts or suggestion? Am I stuck with this?
EDIT 1:
Thank you for the responses. Lesson Learned!
I recently made the purchase of an older firearm off the site. Upon receiving the firearm, I found certain items not mentioned on the description. Below is the auction:
http://www.GunBroker.com/item/558744097
This is the description:
Out of the old west and up for auction is this handsome 1873 Winchester .32-20 made in 1892. Serial # 408822B. Above average condition with beautiful woodgrain and appears all original except for forend screws which appear replaced. The metal is worn to a silver and plum color with normal abrasions. It has a 24" barrel with a good bore which is a little dark but has good rifling and no pitting. The rifle works fine mechanically and shoots well with black powder ammo. This rifle is an antique and can ship directly to your home for a fixed rate of $50 ground shipping and insurance. Please ask all questions before bidding as ALL SALES ARE FINAL. This is a NO RESERVE auction starting at .01. Payment by USPMO or Cashiers check. Please see my other NO RESERVE auctions. Thank you.
Upon receiving the rifle, I sent the following email to the seller:
The package was received on Tuesday. I was out if the office for the afternoon, so I found the package in my office on Wednesday morning.
The manner in which the rifle was shipped was perfect and I could not ask for better. However, upon handling the rifle I found a couple of concerns.
The add on GunBroker did not mention the dust cover being loose, and was certainly not mentioned being loose to the point that it would slide back and forth as the rifle was turned from the horizontal to ventricle position. Additionally, the add did not mention the fact that the magazine tube was not attached properly to the underside of the barrel close to the muzzle. Also, no mention was made that there appeared to be an old repair made to this location, which obviously was no longer holding. Lastly, I am unable to confirm with certainty, only speculation, but the wood has most likely been sanded and refinished at some point over its 124 service. I believe this to be accurate because the wood is no longer "proud", and not raised slightly higher than the metal components of the rifle.
Of the items mentioned above, the tube no longer connected properly to the barrel is my biggest concern. I hope the dust cover can be brought back to working order with a little effort. In the event the wood has been refinished, the coloration of the wood is aged well, and the wood does have good grain.
Had the items above been mentioned in the auction, I doubt I would've bid on the rifle, let alone purchased it for $1200.
Sorry to send an email such as this, but I wanted you to be aware of my concerns. Please respond at your earliest convenience and let me know your thoughts on the matter.
Sellers response:
Glad to hear the rifle arrived safely. I own a collection of antique Winchesters. One of the items you mentioned was the 124 years of service. Over that many years who knows what has been done to the rifle? One of my favorite 1873 rifles has a dust cover which slides up and down every
Time I handle it. I honestly did not see the repair on the magazine you spoke of. This rifle was taken to a gunsmith and the magazine spring was replaced. He never mentioned the tube being loose. They test-fired it and then I shot it several times and it cycled properly. I bought the rifle on GunBroker for over $1600 and that was before
I paid to have the spring put in. I do not feel you overpaid for the rifle. As I mentioned, I am a collector, not a Winchester expert. My experience has been that most of these antique rifles have some kind of problems when I buy them. I have had 2 of them discharge when I closed the lever!
There is a reason many ads advise they are taken to a gunsmith before shooting them. That being said I still enjoy and collect them. If I sell one I make sure it is mechanically sound and describe it to the best of my ability. I am sorry if you are displeased but I am sure you can sell the rifle and
Upgrade to a better one if that is your desire. Just remember you are buying a very old rifle with a long history of use and repairs. Best wishes, Dan
Question....I am not satisfied with the seller's comments, and not particularly happy that the seller thinks it's OK to sell items without an accurate disclosure.
Any thoughts or suggestion? Am I stuck with this?
EDIT 1:
Thank you for the responses. Lesson Learned!
0
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I am commenting because you asked for advice, you aren't complaining. That's because advice is fine on this forum, but complaints are not permitted.
I have my own rules of "red flags", things that I look for in deciding whether or not I should bid. On this auction, I see several:
1) AS IS, ALL SALES ARE FINAL -- With the exception of current, NIB guns, I would expect the option to return the gun if I find a problem.
2) ONLY 1 CLOSE-UP -- For that price, I want to see close-ups of every part of the gun.
3) PHOTOS NOT WELL LIT OR OUT OF FOCUS -- I need to be able to see really good pictures.
4) FLOWERY DESCRIPTION -- I don't want to hear about the "Old West", just tell me about the gun.
5) FEEDBACK -- I see 1 unhappy customer whose complaints sounds similar to yours.
With all those red flags, I wouldn't have been quick to bid. I might have asked the seller, "If it's not as you described, will you refund my money plus shipping both ways?" Had he said "no", that would have told me all I needed to know.
I think that you are stuck with it.
Neal0 -
Agree with Neal for the most part. 0 -
I agree with Neal too. That's why I tell people to try and inspect the firearm before purchase. I have seen far too many firearms that are NIB that aren't worth the asking price to me (fit and finish issues). If it's like 50% price then I would be happy with the deal. 0
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