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10 comments

Date Votes
  • tsr1965
    The difference is the opposite of the 223 vs. 5.56x45 NATO. Where as you do not want to shoot the 5.56 NATO in a 223 Remington chamber, you can shoot the 7.62x51 in a 308 Winchester chamber. However, there are some 7.62x51 chambers you do not want to shoot the 308 Winchester in. Those are specifically as I know them, are the M-1A, and the M-1 Garands that have been chambered in 7.62x51. To do so will bend the Op-Rod's.

    EDIT 1

    Rufe/Rugerniner, yes that is correct...I also have a DPMS LR-308 I use for hunting...you can safely shoot both in.


    EDIT 2

    quote:quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    Those are specifically as I know them, are the M-1A, a
    The paperwork that came with my SA M1A states that 308 Win is good. The M14 design does not suffer from bent operating rods like the Garand rifle.


    The only one you are trying to fool, is yourself.

    There has been changes to the SA M1A, and they are actually not real Springfields...totally different company. Feed them a steady diet of high pressure slow burning powder loads, then let us know how you make out.


    EDIT 3

    quote:Below is a c&p right from the Springfield Armory M1A users manual. Believe what you want, but I'll believe the word from the manufacturer, thanks.

    That is what you should do, but as I stated Springfield Armory, Inc., is a different company than the one that built the original rifles In fact, the original Springfield Armory were not the only ones to build the original M14/M1...there was Harrington & Richardson, and Winchester, if I am not mistaken.
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  • RugerNiner
    Can I shoot both in the gun I posted?
    I guess by your first answer that is a yes.
    0
  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    The difference is the opposite of the 223 vs. 5.56x45 NATO. Where as you do not want to shoot the 5.56 NATO in a 223 Remington chamber, you can shoot the 7.62x51 in a 308 Winchester chamber. However, there are some 7.62x51 chambers you do not want to shoot the 308 Winchester in. Those are specifically as I know them, are the M-1A, and the M-1 Garands that have been chambered in 7.62x51. To do so will bend the Op-Rod's.



    I believe the problem with the bent operating rods? Has to do with the burning rate of some of the commercial powders. Used for certain 308 Winchester loads. I don't recall exactly, but I believe it was the slower burning powers?

    Since to OP's Panther AR has a direct impingement gas system, ( I think?). Don't see that it would be the same problem, as the M1 & M14 gas system rifles.
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  • Riomouse911
    I was reading the most recent Guns mag on Federal Gold Medal Match ammo, and they have their GMM 7.61x51 loaded 200 fps faster than their GMM .308 Win load...I heard the don't use in the .308 in M1A system stories so I always thought .308 was loaded hotter?!?!?
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  • metalsmitty45
    7.62 NATO chamber headspace is 1.6355" GO and 1.640" NO GO
    .308 WIN is 1.630" GO and 1.634 NO GO .

    NATO chambers were deeper for combat conditions ,but if the NATO cross is not on the ammo it can measure all over range 7.62 x 51

    If you have a semi auto M14 or M1 and you want to shoot both types you need a chamber of 1.632 - 1.633 headspace to reliably feed both.This is the standard among Military Armorers today

    Nato chambers should only shoot 7.62 x 51 NATO ammo with cross .
    Some of the foreign 7.62 x 51 is longer than .308 chamber NO GO
    Which can be dangerous in M14 M1 type rifles.

    USGI M14 rifles were usually 1.636 - 1.638 average headspace on the chrome lined barrels .Rifles with this headspace should only fire NATO ammo.
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  • iceracerx
    Not all 308s or 7.62 Nato rounds are the same.

    The standard T65 7.62 was originally designed with a 150 grain bullet IIRC. Currently the M80 Ball round is a 147 grain bullet.

    .308 Winchester Match rounds usually have a 165 grain BTHP bullet.

    Velo of an M80 round is 2733 ft/sec

    A Federal Gold Medal Match round w/ 165 grain BTHP has a velo of 2650 ft/sec
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  • tangara
    Also a bunch of military rifles were re-chambered to 7.62 NATO here in the states or elsewhere. The large ring Mauser's should be able to handle the 7.62/308 element. But the small ring Mauser's like the Spanish 1917 Mauser's that were converted 7.62 should avoid using .308 commercial ammo. Why chance it, these were converted before safety was invented.
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  • Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    Those are specifically as I know them, are the M-1A, a
    The paperwork that came with my SA M1A states that 308 Win is good. The M14 design does not suffer from bent operating rods like the Garand rifle.

    quote:tsr1965 Posted

    The only one you are trying to fool, is yourself.



    Below is a c&p right from the Springfield Armory M1A users manual. Believe what you want, but I'll believe the word from the manufacturer, thanks.



    3. The M1A is designed and built to specifications to shoot standard factory .308 made to SAAMI specifications or 7.62x51 NATO ammunition. The specifications for standard
    military ammunition include harder primers to withstand the slight indentation from the firing pin when the bolt chambers a cartridge. This slight indentation is normal.
    The use of civilian ammunition with more sensitive primers or handloads with commercial primers and/or improperly seated primers increase the risk of primer
    detonation when the bolt slams forward. This unexpected "slam fire" can occur even if the trigger is not being pulled and if the safety is on. Use of military
    specification ammunition will help avoid this. Every shooter should use extreme caution when loading this or any other firearm. See page 17 for instructions on
    proper loading to help avoid a "slam fire". Also see enclosed article on "Slam Fire" written by Wayne Faatz
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  • nononsense
    RugerNiner,

    Here is the definitive article by Stephen Redgwell on this discussion:

    http://www.303british.com/id36.html

    Please note 3 important factors in this discussion:

    1) 7.62 NATO chambers are cut slightly more full in order to accommodate the semi-auto (auto) function of military firearms. It is not just the headspace which is longer but the diameter of the chamber as well. We use the same idea for cutting the AR15 chambers for 5.56/223 ammunition. The headspace is 0.002" - 0.0025" longer and the body is 0.001" - 0.0015" larger in diameter. The reamers for these chambers are marked with both 'semi-auto' and include the dimensions. These slightly larger dimensions aid in feeding and extraction.

    2) The military, in their own inimitable wisdom, simply stopped using the nomenclature of 'CUP' in their manuals regarding the operating pressure of this cartridge and replaced it with the term 'PSI'. The original reference was for '50,000 CUP' which is now replaced with '50,000 PSI'. Herein lies the misunderstanding when making a comparison between the military cartridge and the civilian version.

    3) Military or NATO brass is thicker than the civilian version of this cartridge. This means that NATO or military brass has less case capacity than the civilian version. It is also an indication that NATO brass will withstand slight deviations in pressure when their thinner counterparts will swell and stretch.

    Best.
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  • rsnyder55
    I have an adjustable gas valve on my Garand and it is set full open so I manually cycle it. It will shoot 308 without any problem.
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