Reloads brass necks split during storage?
30:06 hulls neck split while in the box and they are only 6 years old.
Been fired as factory round in gun then neck sized only.
Load is 150g sierra spritzer #2130 bullet
H4831SC 58.5g
OAL+ 3.20 inches
40 were reloaded in 2010 and when I went to inspect cases for hunting I seen a green corrosion on the brass necks and several of the brass necks were cracked. The green blue corrosion was readily visible in the cracks.
When I pulled the bullets the lead base of the bullets had the green blue corrosion. It kinda appeared maybe the corrosion had started at the bullet base and migrated to the neck of the brass case and expanded the case neck enough to crack. One split was vertical and slightly horizontal and lot of blue green and the brass was very brittle on this one and flaked off (the brass just broke instead of bending) when I pulled on it with a fingernail. After the case necks cracked the bullets were very loose in the neck which was too be expected. The reloads were stored in two plastic holder Federal OEM bullet boxes. Most of the splits were a vertical type.
I know that the case necks were not cracked or split when I seated the bullets because I reload with a single stage press and can feel the neck tension on the bullets when I reload and a split neck will feel less resistance when seating the bullet.
I've been reloading for several years and never seen or heard of such???
Anyone ever hear of such? (or have any ideas why the corrosion attacked the brass from the inside of the brass hull)
Been fired as factory round in gun then neck sized only.
Load is 150g sierra spritzer #2130 bullet
H4831SC 58.5g
OAL+ 3.20 inches
40 were reloaded in 2010 and when I went to inspect cases for hunting I seen a green corrosion on the brass necks and several of the brass necks were cracked. The green blue corrosion was readily visible in the cracks.
When I pulled the bullets the lead base of the bullets had the green blue corrosion. It kinda appeared maybe the corrosion had started at the bullet base and migrated to the neck of the brass case and expanded the case neck enough to crack. One split was vertical and slightly horizontal and lot of blue green and the brass was very brittle on this one and flaked off (the brass just broke instead of bending) when I pulled on it with a fingernail. After the case necks cracked the bullets were very loose in the neck which was too be expected. The reloads were stored in two plastic holder Federal OEM bullet boxes. Most of the splits were a vertical type.
I know that the case necks were not cracked or split when I seated the bullets because I reload with a single stage press and can feel the neck tension on the bullets when I reload and a split neck will feel less resistance when seating the bullet.
I've been reloading for several years and never seen or heard of such???
Anyone ever hear of such? (or have any ideas why the corrosion attacked the brass from the inside of the brass hull)
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Hi...I'm wondering what brand shells you used? I no longer use older Remington-UMC ammo because of problems with the cases. Splits and head separations caused problems, sometimes with once-fired cases. Rem-Peters don't seem to have these troubles...same for Peters and Winchester. Must admit that your experiences are different than mine, though. Never had the "green stuff" problem. Maybe it's the brand of bullets rather than the shells? BT 0 -
I have ammo I loaded in the 70's. I have ammo loaded in the 50's by dad and his brothers with no issues to speak of. I shot lots of 30-06, 7.62 Nato that laid out on the ground for years in the rain snow and summer heat. Yea some didn't shoot after being cleaned up.
People are different. One guy at the gun store would leave rusted finger prints if he didn't wipe down the gun instantly after handling it. One of my shooting buddies brother had to use tweezers to put primers in the press or they would die soon. Neither person seemed salty or oily to me.
Some brass is better than others. I try and buy 200 from the same lot for rifles and 1000 for pistols.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BUCKAWHO
Hi...I'm wondering what brand shells you used? I no longer use older Remington-UMC ammo because of problems with the cases. Splits and head separations caused problems, sometimes with once-fired cases. Rem-Peters don't seem to have these troubles...same for Peters and Winchester. Must admit that your experiences are different than mine, though. Never had the "green stuff" problem. Maybe it's the brand of bullets rather than the shells? BT
At the moment I don't know what make the brass hulls area. The reloads are at my son's place. I'm going to look at the name on the headstamp for the maker but I do know that the hulls are a well know maker. I have reloads of all calibers that are way older than those that never had any issues with the green/blue corrosion and split necks while being stored. I polished the hulls in a walnut shell rouge media as I have most all my brass before reloading. Just don't know what started the corrosion issue but the green/blue was more visible on the base of the copper plated bullet where the lead core is visible inside the bullet. Thinking about mailing couple of the bullets and hulls to Sierra for their opinion???0 -
I know for a fact some types of wood have adverse affect on ammo both lead bullets and brass cases OAK is toxic storage for these 0 -
Some time ago, I mentioned in the reloading forum that I noticed neck splits on firing cartridges that I had reloaded 10 or so years previously, especially smaller calibers like .22 or .24. For instance, if I had shot half the box shortly after they were loaded and then shot the rest several years later, the necks on the first ones didn't split but the last ones did.
When I posted this, I was informed, in effect, that I was crazy. So I guess you've joined the crazy ranks with me. Welcome!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
Some time ago, I mentioned in the reloading forum that I noticed neck splits on firing cartridges that I had reloaded 10 or so years previously, especially smaller calibers like .22 or .24. For instance, if I had shot half the box shortly after they were loaded and then shot the rest several years later, the necks on the first ones didn't split but the last ones did.
When I posted this, I was informed, in effect, that I was crazy. So I guess you've joined the crazy ranks with me. Welcome!
the necks on the first ones didn't split but the last ones did.
The earlier brass cases of these that were shot did not split.
These cases were always stored inside house and not exposed to high humidity, etc. I've seen similar blue/green corrosion on 22 rimfire ammo stored long term in leather shell holders, but never seen it on center fire rifle cases stored in regular factory 20 count 30:06 plastic shell holder rifle boxes???
About the OAK wood mentioned above causing corrosion, might have been some sap dripped on the shells from my block wood head. Heck I smell wood burning now and little smoke from one ear just from too much thinking!
Yep, joined the crazies AGAIN. (but I did not vote for Hildabeast)
NRA Member0 -
TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE POWDER IN THESE RELOADS, SOME POWDER COMPANIES HAD PRODUCT PROBLEMS DURING THIS TIME FRAME. I'VE HAD POWDER FROM THIS PERIOD GO BAD IN UN-OPENED CANS. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE POWDER IN THESE RELOADS, SOME POWDER COMPANIES HAD PRODUCT PROBLEMS DURING THIS TIME FRAME. I'VE HAD POWDER FROM THIS PERIOD GO BAD IN UN-OPENED CANS.
I reload from 1 lb plastic jugs. A guy gave me some of the old military 4831 and due to the yellow sulphur looks and smell (it would burn the hair out of your nose when sniffing) I used it for ferterlizer in the flower beds. I do a sniff test of the new 1 lb jugs of powder when first opened and each time I go to reload.
I may have logged the H4831 powder lot number onto the reload boxes. I usually do but not sure of this one. The bad ammo is at my son's place right now and it will be few days before I can do a close inspection.
My son and I were on a camped out deer hunt last week when the bad reloads were noticed and very few of the remaining ammo was useable. Majority of the remaining rounds had split necks and blue/green corrosion in the cracks on the necks. The previously fired hulls did not have any splits. I'm almost certain all the reloads were from same powder lot number and reloaded at same time
because I had glass bedded the gun worked up a load and reloaded all the shells at same time for later use hunting.
(I did not pay attention the maker of the hulls when I seen the bad hulls)
I'll report back later after I have inspected further.
I'll do a close visual inspection and sniff test of the H4831sc powder also.
I also need to inspect other hunting reloads to see if any of them have any similar issues. (we have several hunting rifles and don't always use the same guns each year of hunting season)
Thanks0 -
Been over a year and finally got rid of all my H4831 corrosive powder reloads and went to different powders.
Been a long task requiring lots of accuracy testing patience, preparing brass, bench rest testing, etc. Of all the powders I've re-loaded H4831 is the ONLY one I noticed this very bad corrosive problem. H4831 was one of my favorite powders for producing good accuracy in several different calibers, although when looking for new accurate reloads I found some other powders that would produce tighter consistent groups.
For the 30;06, 308, 243 calibers most generally I found that H4350 or R19 was ok and the magnum calibers 300 win mag, 7mm Remington and Weatherby, 264 Magnum liked H1000 powder.
I wanted to test Norma MRP in some calibers and discovered it was as rare as hen's teeth in my neck of the woods.0 -
sounds like a chemical reaction possibly from the cleaning media, bullet material, etc. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pip5255
sounds like a chemical reaction possibly from the cleaning media, bullet material, etc.
I thought that when I first seen such, but by process of elimination, (for more than a year of inspecting other re-loads) the H4831 is only thing common to all every time corrosion is detected. Same bullets from same packages, same brass from same lots media, etc, etc, etc, in several other reloads with no corrosive issues at all.
This powder (from several different 1 lb lots over the years) is very hygroscopic and pulling some of the bullets the powder indicated moistness inside the brass cases. Some of the powder granules would be melted into the sides of the brass case and granules stuck (lumped) together.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Okie743
quote:Originally posted by pip5255
sounds like a chemical reaction possibly from the cleaning media, bullet material, etc.
I thought that when I first seen such, but by process of elimination, (for more than a year of inspecting other re-loads) the H4831 is only thing common to all every time corrosion is detected. Same bullets from same packages, same brass from same lots media, etc, etc, etc, in several other reloads with no corrosive issues at all.
This powder (from several different 1 lb lots over the years) is very hygroscopic and pulling some of the bullets the powder indicated moistness inside the brass cases. Some of the powder granules would be melted into the sides of the brass case and granules stuck (lumped) together.
Hodgdon has been in the business, of selling powders for years. They started with various surplus powders, after the war. Never was aware, that some of the powders, would would have caused the effect(s), you described. Have you contacted Hodgdon to get their input on this? Sounds like this could cause them, severe liability problems.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
quote:Originally posted by Okie743
quote:Originally posted by pip5255
sounds like a chemical reaction possibly from the cleaning media, bullet material, etc.
I thought that when I first seen such, but by process of elimination, (for more than a year of inspecting other re-loads) the H4831 is only thing common to all every time corrosion is detected. Same bullets from same packages, same brass from same lots media, etc, etc, etc, in several other reloads with no corrosive issues at all.
This powder (from several different 1 lb lots over the years) is very hygroscopic and pulling some of the bullets the powder indicated moistness inside the brass cases. Some of the powder granules would be melted into the sides of the brass case and granules stuck (lumped) together.
Hodgdon has been in the business, of selling powders for years. They started with various surplus powders, after the war. Never was aware, that some of the powders, would would have caused the effect(s), you described. Have you contacted Hodgdon to get their input on this? Sounds like this could cause them, severe liability problems.
My thoughts also about liability issues, such as hot cup of coffee in the crotch syndrome. I emailed Hodgdon's couple of times with my contact info offering to send them some of the different age group reloads of different calibers all using the H4831 but no return response, which did not really surprise me. Yes, Very dangerous situation, some re-loads sound very weak when shot, some primers will not even pop due to corrosion inside the brass case has ruined the primer, weak enough for a bullet to remain hung the chamber or riflings, bullets loose in the brass necks and can be pulled by hand due to split or rotten necks on the brass from the corrosion weakening the brass. Just thought I would at least try to give some reloaders here a heads up about using this Hodgdon H4831 powder or if they have any re-loads of this powder to watch (carefully exam) for the blue/green corrosion in reloads. Most generally first faintly noticeable around bullet at the brass and as the corrosion internally gets worse the corrosion will cause the brass neck to have a faint hairline split.0 -
sounds like the powder is chemically reacting to the brass, normally it will be something else that triggers the reaction like a cleaning agent and the chemicals react and attack the metal.
liability for such falls upon the manufacturer that being you the reloader that made the ammunition.....................0 -
All nitro powder goes bad at some point. Real black powder can remain usable almost forever with proper storage conditions. 0 -
Never Dull or any cleaner with ammonia should never be used to clean cases or added to a tumbler.
Some brass has the wrong percent of tin and antimony with the copper. It makes the brass too brittle.
Powder and primers can be contaminated and you pick up stranger brass that's been sitting uncleaned for months in the elements.
Pull any split necks before firing and inspect fired brass for split necks. A split neck during firing is no big deal and you probably won't even notice it. Case head separation is and that's when all the safety features of the Mauser and Arisaka rifles pay off. If you've been using Brasso or Never Dull, don't do that any more. [;)]0
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