16ga 8.9mm double hammer drilling shotgun
I know you smart folks on this sight can help me better than anyone else:) fingers crossed!! I have a double hammer drilling 16ga 8.9mm (the 8.9mm I can't find on any other guns I found that are similar)? On both sides of barrel it's stamped with kruppscher lauf-stahl symbol and on one side it says Heinrichs E/Suhl the other side it says Gustav Meffert serial#1797! This is a beautiful rare antique gun! I was offered 4K without the guy even wanting to do the research! I'm having a difficult time finding one with exact markings and the number 1797 is a much lower number than the similar guns I have found? The ones I have found are value from 3k-16k!!! I have hopefully attached pictures below if they don't come through let me know it would be easier to email them to someone:)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByrLpsvjKy2BU0dLZVpzNjRpUUE
http://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByrLpsvjKy2BU0dLZVpzNjRpUUE&usp=sharing_eid&ts=572604a0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByrLpsvjKy2BU0dLZVpzNjRpUUE
http://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByrLpsvjKy2BU0dLZVpzNjRpUUE&usp=sharing_eid&ts=572604a0
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Way more than 4 grand I think.
Added
A chamber cast would be the best way to figure out what the 8.9mm cartridge is. Often they were rimmed version of the same rimless cartridge.
I don't think a lower serial number makes much difference unless it's like #1. Condition and maker are everything.
I passed on a 16x16x5.7x52R.(22 Savage HiPower)
A2 yes I looked at the pic's (better one will be needed to get top $ at a sale (IMHO).
My German is rusty but I think this the city it was built in.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrichs_(Suhl)
So the other name must be the builder.
I tried to send you a link via GunBroker but it came back.
I think a professional hands appraisal is warranted, if for nothing else than insurance value. I used to frequent all the gun shops in southern ID. but that was back in the 80's. A big guns show like Los Vegas or perhaps Salt Lake City maybe even Boise (near me) might have the right people. I haven't been to but 1 a show in maybe 8 years.
A3 http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=229548&an=&page=&vc=1
https://www.shootersforum.com/rifles-rifle-cartridges/56366-drilling-gun.html0 -
I know haha:) did you see the pics? What are your thoughts on who would know the most? 0 -
Gustav Mefferts was a well known and prolific German gunmaker.
Post 2 seems authoritative.
http://www.germanguns.com/upload/showthread.php?753-Info-on-a-Gust-Meffert-Hammer-Drilling&s=d0d2b24d0724a5ed47259f81af4093bf&p=2147&viewfull=1#post2147
There are a lot of old German guns out there marked 8.9mm. The proof house did a check of bore diameter with a plug gauge.
I am not sure just what they are. It is more than the bore diameter of a 9mm and seems small for the bore diameter of a 9.3mm.
Dollar value of $4000 sounds like a lot for a pretty gun in unknown obsolete caliber. But maybe somebody will bid more.0 -
I have a older friend but he does not use the internet he has owned
lots of drillings both double Shotgun and double rifle I used to take him to some of the larger gunshows we would get tables together You have a very nice quality Drilling BUT a very limited number of buyes on this trype of Item You have some things going for it #1 Quality
#2 Cartridge trap in butt stock but many things no so good beside limited number of people that want these types of fire-arms #1 Hammer guns do not bring what hammerless ones do #2 we really don't know if cases for this chambering are available #3 we dont know if it is Proofed for Smokeless Powder " we need better pictures of all proof marks"
we don't know if bullets are available again. we need better pictures
I don't know how much you have invested in the gun but if it were mine and had no family connection I would not turn down the 4K offer it looks like there has been some REPAIR in the area of one of the Letter W mark the barrels are made from KRUPP steel but the word KRUPPSCHER may be early Black powder GunBroker would have a number of people interested while a GUNSHOW even a big one would be lucky to have 6 people come in the door that are looking for a HAMMER drilling
UMMV0 -
Nice looking drilling! Most of the older guns such as yours, were brought back as souvenirs. By our G.I.'s during the 1945/46 time frame, after the war.The Germans had to turn in all their guns. Our guys got the pick of the litter. The rest were destroyed.
Because of this. Old guns such as yours have quite substantial value, over there now.
As another poster noted, the 8.9mm proof mark is the bore diameter. I'm away from my books now. But the most common of the German hunting cartridges of that era.(Late 19th, early 20th Centuries.). Was the 9.3 X 72mm. My WAG, is that what your rifle barrel is chambered for.
We need quality close-up photos of the guns proof marks. On the Water Table, and undersides of the barrels. Many times these markings are able to shed, much more information about then gun.
As far as value is concerned. If somebody had offered me 4K, for the gun. I would have snached the money, and ran like the wind. Before the individual could have changed his mind.
EDIT #1,
The Germans changed their proof mark requirements, in 1912. Prior to the First World War. Your proof marks post date 1912, it seems to me.
All other other proofs on the shotgun and rifle barrels seem to be the standard ones found. The shotgun barrel are marked "16", denoting their gauge. There is one hand stamped marking on the rifle barrel that seems to identify it as being 9.3 X 72. But i'm not absolutely sure about this?
EDIT #2,
Do a GOOGLE search, for "German Gun Collectors Association". They have a forum on their site. That might be beneficial for you.
There is a substantial difference, in pie in the sky asking prices. And actual fair market value. The previous poster is giving you good advice on the actual selling prices of Drillings, IMHO.0 -
You all have been helpful maybe these pics will help more?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByrLpsvjKy2BLWlOd3UyVWJHWGc0 -
It is 9.3X72mm caliber; a common drilling cartridge. It is in very nice condition (beautiful??) but it is not a rare gun. The serial number means nothing except to the maker and German government. My estimate is $2000 max value. I saw a nice hammerless drilling in not quite as nice condition sell for $1200 last week.
Sorry, no specs available. It was purchased by the tableholder behind me at a Antique Arms gunshow. I have purchased two drillings in the last few years, fairly well used and requiring minor repairs, for $750 and $700, both hammerless. A collector I know put his drillings at an auction house and was disappointed at the prices received. What he wanted $1600 to $1800 for sold for around $1200.
There is a German or Drilling Collectors Club. Try searching online for it. There may be a buyer there for you. Yours is in very nice condition and would be desirable to the right person.
Note: my drillings are very plain with minimal or no engraving.0 -
quote:Originally posted by navc130
It is 9.3X72mm caliber; a common drilling cartridge. It is in very nice condition (beautiful??) but it is not a rare gun. The serial number means nothing except to the maker and German government. My estimate is $2000 max value. I saw a nice hammerless drilling in not quite as nice condition sell for $1200 last week.
Navc30 do you have the specs? Serial # and pictures of the one you saw? I haven't seen one for under 3k?0 -
Some very sound advice: a clear overall image of L & R sides, & then a FOCUSED shot of each bore would certainly help us to help you.
quote:Originally posted by goddess345
You all have been helpful maybe these pics will help more?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByrLpsvjKy2BLWlOd3UyVWJHWGc0 -
Did that last link open? 0 -
Yes, opened for me. 0 -
Were those pics helpful- where else do I need to snap pictures? 0
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