Winchester M-12 Pigeon Engraved

VGUN1

January 04, 2016 16:41

Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade Trap with Number 12=4 or 12-5 Factory engraved. Anyone know how many of these were made? Got some information; less than a 100 from one place; over that from another. Any info would be appreciated. "Thanks"

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  CapnMidnight

  January 04, 2016 19:57

  I have consulted all of my Winchester information, Burt's Red Book, R.L. Wilson's book and everything else I could find, without finding an answer to your question. I'm thinking Burt himself is your best bet.
  W.D.

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  Bert H.

  January 04, 2016 20:05

  I do not have the answer to the question. That stated, I would be more surprised by the "less than a 100" number than I would be by the greater than 100 possibility.

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  XXCross

  January 05, 2016 08:36

  Hmmm....probably one of the most commonly "faked" shotguns.
  
  An engraver friend of mine says that he is always being asked to
  upgrade M-12's to pigeon status. But maybe ....?

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  Bert H.

  January 05, 2016 18:39

  After putting some additional thought into this, I should have mentioned that Pauline Muerrle would be the best person to consult in regards to the authenticity, and possibly an estimated production number. She was well acquainted with the Kusmit brothers, and Jasper Salerno (the fellows who would have engraved most of the Model 12 Pigeon Guns).

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  VGUN1

  January 06, 2016 04:34

  "Thanks" Bert for the information. Just came up, from the same estate, the same M-12 only in Skeet WS-1. Best looking M-12 I ever saw.

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  tamarackcove

  January 11, 2016 11:04

  quote:Originally posted by XXCross
  
  Hmmm....probably one of the most commonly "faked" shotguns.
  
  An engraver friend of mine says that he is always being asked to
  upgrade M-12's to pigeon status. But maybe ....?
  
  
  You are probably correct.... The Pigeon is the easiest part of the fake. You would still have to engine turn the bolt, (to the correct diameter turnings), and come up with Pigeon grade wood. The Model 12 receiver made a nice "canvas" for the engravers art.
  
  Tamarackcove

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  GuvamintCheese

  January 12, 2016 03:55

  It's real easy to determine if it's aftermarket engraving. Winchester moved the barrel stampings forward to accommodate factory engraved barrels. Guns that were done afterwards will be engraved around barrel stamp.

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  The Jaeger

  January 12, 2016 06:37

  The head of the grip cap screw should is engraved on a pigeon grade too.

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  XXCross

  January 12, 2016 07:33

  Re; GuvamintCheese
  This is correct, however not many people would be aware of this.
  (and they get "burnt' all the time)

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