Breaking NEWS on Orlando incident
Were you aware that no one had been shot, wounded or killed at Pulse until the SWAT team made entry? Judge Napolitano on Fox said it was just released that Mateen didn't start killing until the SWAT team made entry.
I bet several were killed by police.
I bet several were killed by police.
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I was not aware of that.
From the news, I was under the impression he shot the off duty cop that was the doorman when he entered and the firing started from there.0 -
That is astonishing news. I had the impression that he had killed dozens over several hours, prior to the SWAT team entering. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
That is astonishing news. I had the impression that he had killed dozens over several hours, prior to the SWAT team entering.
Well typical active shooter protocal would be immediate entry if there was shooting occurring. My assumption was that there was a initial shooting incident when he entered the club in which he shot several, then a hostage situation occurred. I was confident that he wasn't actively shooting hostages during the 3 hours period. According to today's NEWS conference the Orlando Chief said that officers engaged Mateen inside the club and forced him into the back area of the restrooms and then he stopped shooting and the stand off occurred. Negotiators talked to him three times, for almost 30 minutes.
So if Police had control of a majority of the Club they would moved out the wounded. I am surprised to learn that the casualties did not begin until the end of the incident. that means there must have been alot of hostages back in the restroom area if Napolitano is correct.0 -
Seems unlikely he shot 100 people some as many as 12 times in the time it took swat to stop him? 0 -
Based on the prevailing knowledge up to this point in time, that is going to be a tough sell. 0 -
Was not aware of that. Link or something that corroborates? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Was not aware of that. Link or something that corroborates?
Don't have one, it was said by Judge Napolitano during "out numbered" while they were discussing the release of the 911 transcripts. he said that he felt is was bigger news that they released this piece of information.0 -
No link from me either, but I was watching and heard him say that, too.
As risky as it was, in a situation such as this an assault was necessary and completely unavoidable.
Per US DoD training, a religiously motivated hostage taker cannot be negotiated with to peacefully resolve a hostage/barricaded person situation. To do so would require that he negotiate away his mortal soul.
If this type seems open to negotiations it's to somehow serve his purpose, such as prolonging the incident to maximize media focus or simply gaining time to harden or otherwise improve his position.
According to training I've received, the bottom line is that the only way to deal with this type is to kill them. With him repeatedly stating his actions were due to religion, he wrote the end game.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
No link from me either, but I was watching and heard him say that, too.
Now that is corroboration beyond reproach. [:D] better than a freaking link that is right there!0 -
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Was not aware of that. Link or something that corroborates?
Don't have one, it was said by Judge Napolitano during "out numbered" while they were discussing the release of the 911 transcripts. he said that he felt is was bigger news that they released this piece of information.
I watched that live exchange with the judge last week and I did not come away with that impression at all. Of course there ha be some shooting when SWAT finally did go in about three hours after the killings had begun, and I do think he mentioned the possibility that some folks might have been hit at this time, but I don't recall for certain. With this in mind, had all of the people been killed when SWAT did go in, there would have been a huge outcry from the public at that time, I'd think.0 -
I just went through Fox's website and saw nothing reporting that. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Was not aware of that. Link or something that corroborates?
Don't have one, it was said by Judge Napolitano during "out numbered" while they were discussing the release of the 911 transcripts. he said that he felt is was bigger news that they released this piece of information.
I watched that live exchange with the judge last week and I did not come away with that impression at all. Of course there ha be some shooting when SWAT finally did go in about three hours after the killings had begun, and I do think he mentioned the possibility that some folks might have been hit at this time, but I don't recall for certain. With this in mind, had all of the people been killed when SWAT did go in, there would have been a huge outcry from the public at that time, I'd think.
He said it today, not last week.0 -
If he had tried that in a night club in a town like New Port in East Tennessee there wouldn't have been any need for a swat team 'cause he would have been killed before his first victim hit the floor. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
If he had tried that in a night club in a town like New Port in East Tennessee there wouldn't have been any need for a swat team 'cause he would have been killed before his first victim hit the floor.And all other patrons in the bar would claim they were in the restroom and didn't see a thing.
I once responded to a bar stabbing and had 17 people claim to have been in the restroom when it happened. Problem was that this was a 2-holer with a sink. [:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
No link from me either, but I was watching and heard him say that, too.
As risky as it was, in a situation such as this an assault was necessary and completely unavoidable.
Per US DoD training, a religiously motivated hostage taker cannot be negotiated with to peacefully resolve a hostage/barricaded person situation. To do so would require that he negotiate away his mortal soul.
If this type seems open to negotiations it's to somehow serve his purpose, such as prolonging the incident to maximize media focus or simply gaining time to harden or otherwise improve his position.
According to training I've received, the bottom line is that the only way to deal with this type is to kill them. With him repeatedly stating his actions were due to religion, he wrote the end game.
This is an interesting point. It became more interesting after I learned, on the "Out Numbered" website,
that the feds are scrubbing all religious references from the transcripts of the killer's 911 calls.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/20/fbi-to-release-partial-transcript-between-orlando-nightclub-gunman-and-police.html?intcmp=hpbt30 -
I know I heard him state exactly what shilowar relates, but I'm wondering how good his information was or if he somehow seriously misworded things.
Multiple witness accounts in the media describe seeing patrons gunned down out in the main area of the bar immediately after he began firing. Some also describe having to step over bodies lying in the exit doorways as they fled the building.
I also read an interview with a guy who hid in a restroom stall playing dead. He described the guy entering and shooting people in an adjacent stall, then making those multiple 911 calls stating ISIS motivation and even said he heard the guy washing his hands - all of this taking place hours before the LE assault on the building began.
The BIG clue that what he stated was incorrect is that this restroom probably wouldn't hold 100+ people. [;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Txs
No link from me either, but I was watching and heard him say that, too.
Now that is corroboration beyond reproach. [:D] better than a freaking link that is right there!
Haha. I wasn't asking for corroboration of your retelling of what Napolitano said, but that it was corroborated by witnesses who were on scene there.[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Was not aware of that. Link or something that corroborates?
Don't have one, it was said by Judge Napolitano during "out numbered" while they were discussing the release of the 911 transcripts. he said that he felt is was bigger news that they released this piece of information.
I watched that live exchange with the judge last week and I did not come away with that impression at all. Of course there ha be some shooting when SWAT finally did go in about three hours after the killings had begun, and I do think he mentioned the possibility that some folks might have been hit at this time, but I don't recall for certain. With this in mind, had all of the people been killed when SWAT did go in, there would have been a huge outcry from the public at that time, I'd think.
He said it today, not last week.
You know what they say about memory and age. [:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
I know I heard him state exactly what shilowar relates, but I'm wondering how good his information was or if he somehow seriously misworded things.
Multiple witness accounts in the media describe seeing patrons gunned down out in the main area of the bar immediately after he began firing. Some also describe having to step over bodies lying in the exit doorways as they fled the building.
I also read an interview with a guy who hid in a restroom stall playing dead. He described the guy entering and shooting people in an adjacent stall, then making those multiple 911 calls stating ISIS motivation and even said he heard the guy washing his hands - all of this taking place hours before the LE assault on the building began.
The BIG clue that what he stated was incorrect is that this restroom probably wouldn't hold 100+ people. [;)]
It's just hard to believe that everyone was alive and well until SWAT attacked.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
The BIG clue that what he stated was incorrect is that this restroom probably wouldn't hold 100+ people. [;)]
I would point out that it is a G-A-Y bar, the restroom might be teh most popular part of the building. [xx(]0 -
while I was watching the news earlier they ask how many the LEO may have killed in the shoot out , they replied it will come out of the investigation , he also stated in his ( I think he was the sheriff ) opinion it was all on the shooter all that were killed , 0 -
quote:"There were four phone calls. This is the first one. This is the one made at 2:02 am, before he killed anyone. There are three more calls; there are no transcripts [released] of those... Those are the conversations they had with the Orlando PD's hostage negotiator. We don't know what was said, but we know at the end of them they decided to raid the place, at 5:13, that is when people started dying."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/20/napolitano_orlando_transcript_censorship_was_an_attempt_to_re-write_history.html0 -
quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
quote:"There were four phone calls. This is the first one. This is the one made at 2:02 am, before he killed anyone. There are three more calls; there are no transcripts [released] of those... Those are the conversations they had with the Orlando PD's hostage negotiator. We don't know what was said, but we know at the end of them they decided to raid the place, at 5:13, that is when people started dying."I read an account by a wounded survivor from the bathroom.
She said that when the hole was blown in the wall he opened fire and shot two hostages before being put down by the police.
At this point I'll take her word.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
If he had tried that in a night club in a town like New Port in East Tennessee there wouldn't have been any need for a swat team 'cause he would have been killed before his first victim hit the floor.And all other patrons in the bar would claim they were in the restroom and didn't see a thing.
I once responded to a bar stabbing and had 17 people claim to have been in the restroom when it happened. Problem was that this was a 2-holer with a sink. [:D]
Was in a McDonald's once when a drunken idiot spit in the face of the manager gal. When the cops got there and were trying to figure out how the guy got so banged up, the Sgt. said he had never had so many people witness 1 guy falling down so many times. [;)][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
quote:"There were four phone calls. This is the first one. This is the one made at 2:02 am, before he killed anyone. There are three more calls; there are no transcripts [released] of those... Those are the conversations they had with the Orlando PD's hostage negotiator. We don't know what was said, but we know at the end of them they decided to raid the place, at 5:13, that is when people started dying."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/20/napolitano_orlando_transcript_censorship_was_an_attempt_to_re-write_history.html
Well there ya go.0 -
Think of all the people who got soaked in blood helping the wounded.
It's going to be a scary few months while they wait out the HIV tests.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gruntled
Think of all the people who got soaked in blood helping the wounded.
It's going to be a scary few months while they wait out the HIV tests.
That was one of the first things I was thing, that place is a serious biohazard.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
quote:Originally posted by Txs
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
If he had tried that in a night club in a town like New Port in East Tennessee there wouldn't have been any need for a swat team 'cause he would have been killed before his first victim hit the floor.And all other patrons in the bar would claim they were in the restroom and didn't see a thing.
I once responded to a bar stabbing and had 17 people claim to have been in the restroom when it happened. Problem was that this was a 2-holer with a sink. [:D]
Was in a McDonald's once when a drunken idiot spit in the face of the manager gal. When the cops got there and were trying to figure out how the guy got so banged up, the Sgt. said he had never had so many people witness 1 guy falling down so many times. [;)][:D]
[:D][:D][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
I read an account by a wounded survivor from the bathroom.
She said that when the hole was blown in the wall he opened fire and shot two hostages before being put down by the police.
At this point I'll take her word.
Does this mean 47 were killed by police?0 -
And before you know it he will have been enrolled in a Baptist Seminary to become an ordained minister. No mention of his muznut buddies. 0
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