Debate over Cruz's eligibility to be president...
Debate over Cruz's eligibility to be president ignites again with new argument
Jan 13th 2016 10:16AM
The debate over whether or not Republican candidate Ted Cruz can legally as president has taken a new twist as a constitutional law professor penned an op-ed in which she claims Cruz is not eligible for the job he's seeking.
"Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) is not a natural-born citizen and therefore is not eligible to be president or vice president of the United States," Mary McManamon, a constitutional law professor at Widener University's Delaware Law School, writes in her piece for The Washington Post.
Cruz was born in Canada, to an American mother and a Cuban father. The U.S. Constitution states specifically that "No person except a natural born Citizen ... shall be eligible to the Office of President."
Cruz's campaign, citing legal scholars, has argued that because his mother was a U.S. citizen and therefore he was a U.S. citizen from birth, he counts as natural born rather than "naturalized," the term used to refer to someone of foreign citizenship who is granted American citizenship later in life.
Republican Presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, campaigns at Penny's Diner in Missouri Valley, Iowa, Monday, Jan. 4, 2016. (AP Photo/Nati Harnik)
While legal experts have said Cruz's American mother is enough to qualify him for the presidency as a "natural-born citizen," courts have never ruled on the issue, and McManamon is part of a growing chorus of scholars weighing in on the matter as Cruz's standing in the polls improves.
McManamon insists in her piece that "concept of 'natural born' comes from common law," and that common law clearly indicates that country of birth is a primary factor in this decision.
Her argument echoes that of fellow legal expert Laurence Tribe, a Harvard professor of constitutional law who penned a similar piece for The Boston Globe on Monday.
People are entitled to their own opinions about what the definition ought to be. But the kind of judge Cruz says he admires and would appoint to the Supreme Court is an "originalist," one who claims to be bound by the narrowly historical meaning of the Constitution's terms at the time of their adoption. To his kind of judge, Cruz ironically wouldn't be eligible, because the legal principles that prevailed in the 1780s and '90s required that someone actually be born on US soil to be a "natural born" citizen. Even having two US parents wouldn't suffice. And having just an American mother, as Cruz did, would have been insufficient at a time that made patrilineal descent decisive.
The Congressional Research Service released a report in 2011 on the qualifications for president, focusing on the issue of natural born citizenship, and ultimately concluded that natural born citizenship means you're a citizen at birth -- not that the country of birth is as crucial.
Republican Sen. John McCain faced his own birther criticism when running for president because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. He has said it is "worth looking into" Cruz's citizenship.
If Cruz does become the GOP nominee, the issue may end up falling to the Supreme Court. Until it does, the question of natural born citizenship and Cruz's eligibility is likely to remain up for debate.
http://www.aol.com/article/2016/01/13/debate-over-cruzs-eligibility-to-be-president-ignites-again/21296563/
Jan 13th 2016 10:16AM
The debate over whether or not Republican candidate Ted Cruz can legally as president has taken a new twist as a constitutional law professor penned an op-ed in which she claims Cruz is not eligible for the job he's seeking.
"Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) is not a natural-born citizen and therefore is not eligible to be president or vice president of the United States," Mary McManamon, a constitutional law professor at Widener University's Delaware Law School, writes in her piece for The Washington Post.
Cruz was born in Canada, to an American mother and a Cuban father. The U.S. Constitution states specifically that "No person except a natural born Citizen ... shall be eligible to the Office of President."
Cruz's campaign, citing legal scholars, has argued that because his mother was a U.S. citizen and therefore he was a U.S. citizen from birth, he counts as natural born rather than "naturalized," the term used to refer to someone of foreign citizenship who is granted American citizenship later in life.
Republican Presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, campaigns at Penny's Diner in Missouri Valley, Iowa, Monday, Jan. 4, 2016. (AP Photo/Nati Harnik)
While legal experts have said Cruz's American mother is enough to qualify him for the presidency as a "natural-born citizen," courts have never ruled on the issue, and McManamon is part of a growing chorus of scholars weighing in on the matter as Cruz's standing in the polls improves.
McManamon insists in her piece that "concept of 'natural born' comes from common law," and that common law clearly indicates that country of birth is a primary factor in this decision.
Her argument echoes that of fellow legal expert Laurence Tribe, a Harvard professor of constitutional law who penned a similar piece for The Boston Globe on Monday.
People are entitled to their own opinions about what the definition ought to be. But the kind of judge Cruz says he admires and would appoint to the Supreme Court is an "originalist," one who claims to be bound by the narrowly historical meaning of the Constitution's terms at the time of their adoption. To his kind of judge, Cruz ironically wouldn't be eligible, because the legal principles that prevailed in the 1780s and '90s required that someone actually be born on US soil to be a "natural born" citizen. Even having two US parents wouldn't suffice. And having just an American mother, as Cruz did, would have been insufficient at a time that made patrilineal descent decisive.
The Congressional Research Service released a report in 2011 on the qualifications for president, focusing on the issue of natural born citizenship, and ultimately concluded that natural born citizenship means you're a citizen at birth -- not that the country of birth is as crucial.
Republican Sen. John McCain faced his own birther criticism when running for president because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. He has said it is "worth looking into" Cruz's citizenship.
If Cruz does become the GOP nominee, the issue may end up falling to the Supreme Court. Until it does, the question of natural born citizenship and Cruz's eligibility is likely to remain up for debate.
http://www.aol.com/article/2016/01/13/debate-over-cruzs-eligibility-to-be-president-ignites-again/21296563/
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Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president. 0 -
If he was born on foreign soil to at least one American parent, and his birth was registered with the American Consulate/Embassy, then he is a natural-born citizen.
That is why McCain was clearly eligible.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president.
I don't think it's quite the same thing in that Hawaii was a state when Obama was born, and it's hard to fake the announcement of his birth as mentioned in the local, archived newspaper account.0 -
They will never ever press this, because Chocolate Jesus suffers from similar defects. His mother was not old enough to have conferred citizenship at the time CJ was born, so it matters not if it was in HI or right in the capitol building in DC. 0 -
Let's see here.
Obama was born in Kenya, his mom flew him to Hawaii and placed an ad in the local Hawaii newspaper saying he was born.
Obama has a Social Security number from Conn.
In college, his name was Barry and was born in Indonesia.
No one remembers him from his high school and college days. No college transcripts were ever presented but they all say he is the smartest man in the world.
Now they question if Cruz is legal enough to be president?0 -
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president.
I don't think it's quite the same thing in that Hawaii was a state when Obama was born, and it's hard to fake the announcement of his birth as mentioned in the local, archived newspaper account.
You actually believe that Obama was born in Hawaii? How did Obama visit the middle east on a Indonesian passport if he was a US citizen? How do you become a foreign exchange student going to school in the US if you're a US citizen? His own grandma said she was present at his birth and she was never out of Africa until he was elected president.0 -
"Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president."
There are plenty of REAL US citizens to run for President. Big Zero was nominated because of "the black thing" and his pedigree was covered up when questioned. If Cruz qualifies as a "natural born American", run him. No lawyer hokus pokus or opinions-just the true facts.0 -
"People are entitled to their own opinions about what the definition ought to be. But the kind of judge Cruz says he admires and would appoint to the Supreme Court is an "originalist," one who claims to be bound by the narrowly historical meaning of the Constitution's terms at the time of their adoption. To his kind of judge, Cruz ironically wouldn't be eligible, because the legal principles that prevailed in the 1780s and '90s required that someone actually be born on US soil to be a "natural born" citizen. Even having two US parents wouldn't suffice. And having just an American mother, as Cruz did, would have been insufficient at a time that made patrilineal descent decisive."
"natural born" is actually from British common law. It was to ensure citizenship for the child of a British citizen born on foreign soil (British colony).
It's odd that the very people that were involved in the writing of the Constitution would fail the recognize this current argument. I believe the first 7 Presidents were born British citizens of British parents. Only later did the British soil become US soil.
As for McCain, does anyone want to give him credibility on any issue much less this one. He is a Richard Weed, and not very fond of Cruz.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president.
I don't think it's quite the same thing in that Hawaii was a state when Obama was born, and it's hard to fake the announcement of his birth as mentioned in the local, archived newspaper account.
You actually believe that Obama was born in Hawaii? How did Obama visit the middle east on a Indonesian passport if he was a US citizen? How do you become a foreign exchange student going to school in the US if you're a US citizen? His own grandma said she was present at his birth and she was never out of Africa until he was elected president.
What I said is that it is hard to fake archived documentation in the way of a city newspaper and its birth announcements. Now, if the information that you have regarding his grandma's statement is first hand information, I. e. from her to you in a face to face conversation, then you have some potentially very strong evidence.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
They will never ever press this, because Chocolate Jesus suffers from similar defects. His mother was not old enough to have conferred citizenship at the time CJ was born, so it matters not if it was in HI or right in the capitol building in DC.
I vaguely remember something like that, Randy, can you expand on some of the deatils without going to any trouble?0 -
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
They will never ever press this, because Chocolate Jesus suffers from similar defects. His mother was not old enough to have conferred citizenship at the time CJ was born, so it matters not if it was in HI or right in the capitol building in DC.
I vaguely remember something like that, Randy, can you expand on some of the deatils without going to any trouble?
She was 16 and there is/was a legal precedent that 18 was required. That's all I remember off hand. It was, IMO, one of the more damning pieces against our current potus that went nowhere.0 -
BO could be considered an anchor baby I guess. If born in HI.
If born in Kenya he would be Kenyan since his mother was a minor (under 21).
Why is everything about him sealed?
Everything about Cruz is open for review.
Stanley Ann Dunham (November 29, 1942 - November 7, 1995)
"On August 4, 1961, at the age of 18, Dunham gave birth to her first child, Barack Obama II."0 -
It would be extremely easy at that time in our country to have had the child in Kenya and then flown Home and gotten a birth certificate and placed an announcement.
If I recall the story was his mother was too pregnant to fly and had the baby and then flew home with the baby. Since he was born on the 4th and the certificate isn't signed until the 8th it is at least plausible.
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president.
I don't think it's quite the same thing in that Hawaii was a state when Obama was born, and it's hard to fake the announcement of his birth as mentioned in the local, archived newspaper account.
You actually believe that Obama was born in Hawaii? How did Obama visit the middle east on a Indonesian passport if he was a US citizen? How do you become a foreign exchange student going to school in the US if you're a US citizen? His own grandma said she was present at his birth and she was never out of Africa until he was elected president.0 -
If the Kenyan Muslim with forged[}:)][;)] birth docs [:0] is eligible to be POTUS then Cruz, born to an American Citizen mother is also eligible.
I sure as hell don't trust SCOTUS to get it right. At this point in time they would claim Putin was eligible as long as Roberts could say he paid taxes.0 -
Well as for old McCain, the canal zone was a U.S. territory at the time, so that's not an issue.
As for Obama, the question of where he was born is immaterial. He expatriated his citizenship when Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian national, legally adopted him when he was still a minor. He could have reclaimed his U.S. citizenship without prejudice, had he remained in the U.S. for 10 years following his adult return, as per the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952. He traveled to Canada and Pakistan during that time. Ergo, not eligible. Those facts are all matter of public record, which is why it drives me absolutely nuts.
As for Cruz: being born in Canada isn't worrying to me, IF all the other criteria are met; namely his mom was old enough to confer citizenship, he was never adopted by a foreign national, never renounced his citizenship, and so on. I do want the facts looked into and such, but until then, I have no opinion on it.0 -
"As for Cruz: being born in Canada isn't worrying to me, IF all the other criteria are met; namely his mom was old enough to confer citizenship, he was never adopted by a foreign national, never renounced his citizenship, and so on. I do want the facts looked into and such, but until then, I have no opinion on it."
This is what I'm saying. If he is eligible, fine. If he's not and is trying to lawyer yack his way through, dump him like burned toast and look for another candidate. His beating around the bush and posturing is costing him confidence points.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
They will never ever press this, because Chocolate Jesus suffers from similar defects. His mother was not old enough to have conferred citizenship at the time CJ was born, so it matters not if it was in HI or right in the capitol building in DC.
I vaguely remember something like that, Randy, can you expand on some of the deatils without going to any trouble?
She was 16 and there is/was a legal precedent that 18 was required. That's all I remember off hand. It was, IMO, one of the more damning pieces against our current potus that went nowhere.
I thought that was it. Thanks.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
It would be extremely easy at that time in our country to have had the child in Kenya and then flown Home and gotten a birth certificate and placed an announcement.
If I recall the story was his mother was too pregnant to fly and had the baby and then flew home with the baby. Since he was born on the 4th and the certificate isn't signed until the 8th it is at least plausible.
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by Smitty500mag
Well isn't that the same thing we argued against Obama being eligible to run for president? His mother was a US citizen and his father was an African and Obama was born in Kenya. No different than Cruz being born in Canada. So in my opinion neither one should be eligible to be president.
I don't think it's quite the same thing in that Hawaii was a state when Obama was born, and it's hard to fake the announcement of his birth as mentioned in the local, archived newspaper account.
You actually believe that Obama was born in Hawaii? How did Obama visit the middle east on a Indonesian passport if he was a US citizen? How do you become a foreign exchange student going to school in the US if you're a US citizen? His own grandma said she was present at his birth and she was never out of Africa until he was elected president.
I'm not supporting this type of information or our racist president on this note. Proving historical accuracy, one way or the other, about this note alone is more than you or I would be willing to tackle in an effort that might or might not prove the point we try to make.0
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