300 Win VS 300 300 WSM
Hello from Oregon---Just for kicks, and giggles I'm getting an itch for a Long Range gun. I had a 300 Win Mag in a Rem 700 several years back that would shoot cloverleaf groups. So I'm leaning toward that cal again. Although I have several WSM's, I'd still like opinions on the two cartridges. This will be used for "buddy" completion, or desert hunting. Input please. Cost of ammo is not a big deal, and Iwill be hand-loading for both. THX Guys
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I have been in the same boat, recently. I had an M700 .300 Win Mag for years and it was a great shooter. Its one drawback from some views, is that it has a short neck and doesn't support the bullet as well as other cartridges. I tried the .300 Whby with very long bullets (220-225 grain) and it handles them well. If you use it as a single shot you can seat the bullet .005 or thereabouts short of the leades and eliminate the concern for Whby freebore. I am now using the .340 Whby with a 26" Douglas barrel 1 - 10" twist and 250 match bullets. At a MV of 2900 Sierra says the SMK will still be supersonic at 1800+ yards, so no trans-sonic wobble. We'll see. Good luck on yours, you may find it is a little addictive and the parts get a little expensive.
EDIT: My current working load in the .340 is a Weatherby case, neck sized after chamber forming, a Federal 215 primer, 87 grains of 7828SSC and a Sierra 250 grain Match King seated to 3.535 OAL. It shows just under 2900 fps and has been grouping between 4"- 5" at 600 yards (when I can do my part). Rifle is a Howa/Weatherby action, Douglas XX 26" 5A profile 1-10" with a Gentry muzzle break. Stock is a B&C with the aluminum spine glassed at the recoil plate. Trigger is a Timney. Glass is a Bushnell Tactical Elite 3.5 - 21X with a 34 mm tube and mil-dot. This is what works for me, but it has taken a while to work up to this point, DON'T start there!
Best,
Brian0 -
Hi fuelie---Thx for the input
It's interesting that you would mention the 340 Wby. I have shot rifles all the way to the .600Wby, and survived!!!!, But it was a NIB Mk V 340, with a brake that sent me whimpering back to the car some years ago. I was shooting factory loads from a bench, and I thought it had blown up in my hands. But when the tears in my eyes cleared up, I could see that every thing but my shoulder, and ears were fine. Are you shooting reduced loads????? THX again0 -
I've had both, and currently have the regular mag. It seems that the short mags have went the way of the horse and carriage, and don't seem to be very popular anymore. I had feeding problems with my short mag (Rem 700), and found that if I ever needed some ammo out in BFE, I'd be really hard pressed to find some short action ammo. As for grouping, I feel that the regular will out shoot the shortie, but maybe because I just like the regular old 300 better. 0 -
toad67,
quote:It seems that the short mags have went the way of the horse and carriage, and don't seem to be very popular anymore.
It all depends on what part of the country you're in and what type of shooting you do. Of all the cartridges I chamber for these two are the most popular by far, both for hunting and target shooting.
Many of the supposed drawbacks to any cartridge can be offset by creating a barreled action which has the chamber concentric with the bore and bolt. This is also true of many of the stories regarding free bore. Yes, the Weatherby free bore can be a challenge but not insurmountable when the chamber is again in concentricity which might be difficult with any factory offering. Feeding is always an issue with any cartridge besides .308 Win and the venerable .30-06 Springfield. The shorter, fatter cartridges have a couple of little obstacles to overcome but in general, they can be made to feed consistently with zero failure when properly set up.
The 300 WSM, 7mm WSM and the same in the RSAUM are enjoying a resounding presence in the long range target shooting fellowship. The dearth of domestic brass of best quality has been a stumbling block for the last couple of years. The Europeans and Scandinavians have picked up the slack but we suffer now from exorbitant prices for the better quality brands.
Either of the .300's, the .300 WSM or the .300 Winchester Magnum, can be one-hole shooters when the rifles are assembled with attention to the details. One is not better than the other simply because of the case.
Best.0 -
Tough choice you have in front of you. I have had a soft spot for the regular 300 Winchester Magnum, since 1983, when I purchased my first one...a 700 BDL. I topped it with a Burris 3-12x Signature Series about 3 years after I purchased it. That rifle accounted for dozens of deer, out to ranges of 500 plus yards. I never will be without one in my arsenal.
Nononsense makes some valid points, but I am thinking the availability of the 300 Win, over 300 WSM at mom and pop gas stations is still the norm.0 -
I really like the magazine box to accommodate the cartridge with bullets seated out in the neck not back into the case.
The well in several 100 rifles I played with in the last 50 have all been individuals - some shoot way better than others. All but one shot better with my reloads, the one that didn't I gave away. I have owned several wildcats and never had an issue feeding them. I don't do store bought ammo except for rim fires.
Personally I would consider 6.5 and 7mm.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
toad67,
quote:It seems that the short mags have went the way of the horse and carriage, and don't seem to be very popular anymore.
It all depends on what part of the country you're in and what type of shooting you do. Of all the cartridges I chamber for these two are the most popular by far, both for hunting and target shooting.
Many of the supposed drawbacks to any cartridge can be offset by creating a barreled action which has the chamber concentric with the bore and bolt. This is also true of many of the stories regarding free bore. Yes, the Weatherby free bore can be a challenge but not insurmountable when the chamber is again in concentricity which might be difficult with any factory offering. Feeding is always an issue with any cartridge besides .308 Win and the venerable .30-06 Springfield. The shorter, fatter cartridges have a couple of little obstacles to overcome but in general, they can be made to feed consistently with zero failure when properly set up.
The 300 WSM, 7mm WSM and the same in the RSAUM are enjoying a resounding presence in the long range target shooting fellowship. The dearth of domestic brass of best quality has been a stumbling block for the last couple of years. The Europeans and Scandinavians have picked up the slack but we suffer now from exorbitant prices for the better quality brands.
Either of the .300's, the .300 WSM or the .300 Winchester Magnum, can be one-hole shooters when the rifles are assembled with attention to the details. One is not better than the other simply because of the case.
Best.
NN,
Your post really intrigued me. I agree that both of the 300's are pretty darn close in terms of ballistics, etc. I live in Oregon, and I can find 300 WSM ammo all over the place because of lack of demand. Recently we had a Sports Authority go out of business and they had about 40 boxes of factory Federal 300 WSM at a reduced price of $12/box on the last day before they closed. My LGS has about 10 boxes that he has been setting on for over 2 years, and they haven't moved. Why do you think that the chambering is so regionalized? I also realize that with proper work a barreled action can be tuned to make it shoot great. However, I feel that a WSM gun usually takes a bit more work to shoot good "out of the box" than the old standard 300WM. Great thread, look forward to seeing more of this!
Todd0 -
quote:Originally posted by toad67
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
toad67,
quote:It seems that the short mags have went the way of the horse and carriage, and don't seem to be very popular anymore.
It all depends on what part of the country you're in and what type of shooting you do. Of all the cartridges I chamber for these two are the most popular by far, both for hunting and target shooting.
Many of the supposed drawbacks to any cartridge can be offset by creating a barreled action which has the chamber concentric with the bore and bolt. This is also true of many of the stories regarding free bore. Yes, the Weatherby free bore can be a challenge but not insurmountable when the chamber is again in concentricity which might be difficult with any factory offering. Feeding is always an issue with any cartridge besides .308 Win and the venerable .30-06 Springfield. The shorter, fatter cartridges have a couple of little obstacles to overcome but in general, they can be made to feed consistently with zero failure when properly set up.
The 300 WSM, 7mm WSM and the same in the RSAUM are enjoying a resounding presence in the long range target shooting fellowship. The dearth of domestic brass of best quality has been a stumbling block for the last couple of years. The Europeans and Scandinavians have picked up the slack but we suffer now from exorbitant prices for the better quality brands.
Either of the .300's, the .300 WSM or the .300 Winchester Magnum, can be one-hole shooters when the rifles are assembled with attention to the details. One is not better than the other simply because of the case.
Best.
NN,
Your post really intrigued me. I agree that both of the 300's are pretty darn close in terms of ballistics, etc. I live in Oregon, and I can find 300 WSM ammo all over the place because of lack of demand. Recently we had a Sports Authority go out of business and they had about 40 boxes of factory Federal 300 WSM at a reduced price of $12/box on the last day before they closed. My LGS has about 10 boxes that he has been setting on for over 2 years, and they haven't moved. Why do you think that the chambering is so regionalized? I also realize that with proper work a barreled action can be tuned to make it shoot great. However, I feel that a WSM gun usually takes a bit more work to shoot good "out of the box" than the old standard 300WM. Great thread, look forward to seeing more of this!
Todd
Nononsense is not talking about rebuilding or tweaking a factory rifle, with factory parts. He is going on building the rifle from the ground up, with a great action, and barrel, all with his no room for imperfection policy. That is what he does, build top shelf custom rifles on actions from Surgeon, Stillers, Defiance Machine, and other's, using top shelf barrels from Bartlein, and the like, using 5R cut rifling, then puts them in a solid launching pad, from McMillan, Manners, and the like. Given the same amount of precision during assembly, both of these cartridges are of equal ability. The rifles that he builds commonly shoot 3/8 MOA or better, and he also does AR platform rifles, that shoot as good as the bolt guns he builds. If you want something special, this is the man to see.
The SAUMS are the cartridges that are drying up, not the WSM's, but you are still more likely to find the regular Winchester Magnum at the local gas station, than the WSM version.0 -
toad67,
quote:Why do you think that the chambering is so regionalized?
A billion years ago when I was affiliated with the advertising industry we spent an unGodly amount of time analyzing spending data and the metrics to support those ideas. Many situations dictated a regionalized release or campaign based on that research. In certain special situations, the product was actually modified for a specific region. All this in the name of maximizing profits with the least investment.
I think to a certain extent, that this is what we see here with ammunition and particular brands of firearms and the chambers they release in certain areas. I don't think it's as specialized as say, watches or perfumes or cars but I think that the manufacturers place an amount of importance on the data gathered which may or may not be truly applicable. But they want to use some form of discrimination so that they aren't spending the same amount of money promoting a product in a region where it might not be as profitable as in another.
In my opinion, Remington has been guilty of misinterpreting data such as this for the last 40 years. This is in part also attributable to the management's choices of priorities with regard to accounting and leadership.
There are a dozen or more missteps which can be cited as examples but the most glaring has been the dedication to the new technology of plastics in firearms. I give you the Model 770 and 783, both abysmal failures due to their perception that the general hunting public wanted cheap hunting rifles. Not well built or reliable, just cheap.
To another extent, I think that their analysis of chambers and ammunition fall into that same category, trying to save money and expenses on advertising, shipping and product support by using comparative regional data as the discriminator.
I've hunted Blacktail in the Northwest and I used a 7mm WSM when I could've used a .30-30 in the deep woods. I hunted bear in several states and carried a .300 WSM. I shoot F-class and use a 7mm WSM in certain areas. I've also hunted Coues deer in the Southwest and carried a .240 Weatherby. But I don't live by any of the normally accepted rationalizations either. I love wildcats and travel to compete and hunt with cartridges most folks haven't heard of. I don't worry about finding replacement ammunition in a local hardware store or gas station. My ammunition is tuned to that particular rifle and the general fare available in stores is just not suitable. I plan ahead to make arrangement which guarantee that I will always have a sufficient amount of the ammunition I need for my endeavor. It's my responsibility to make those plans to succeed. I don't wait for the airlines to lose my ammunition or for some idiot delivery person to take it to the wrong address. I make sure that I have what I need when I need it.
Well that's a long way around the Horn.[;)]
Best.0
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