Thompson Provenance value enhanced?
If there are any Thompson experts- My agency has a Thompson Model 1921 that was acquired to address the threat of bank robberies back in the day. Dillinger grew up one county away and was known to hide out here.
During that heyday, a bank robber was slain with our Thompson. I was just able to confirm through old news articles. I wondered if it was ours or another agency that had one back then. Turns out according to the articles, that agency hadn't acquired theirs yet.
Wondering how much that historical provenance would affect the value? The Chopper is in fine condition and fires quite well, as of last weekend.
During that heyday, a bank robber was slain with our Thompson. I was just able to confirm through old news articles. I wondered if it was ours or another agency that had one back then. Turns out according to the articles, that agency hadn't acquired theirs yet.
Wondering how much that historical provenance would affect the value? The Chopper is in fine condition and fires quite well, as of last weekend.
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Depends who the bank robber was, IMHO. If he was well known, and had any association. With the famous criminal gangs of that era. Very positive affect on it's value.
On the other hand, just a local loser dirt bag, not so much. Any documentation, would have a positive affect on value though. Nowadays any original Police Thompson, with a documented history such as your departments. Is worth many thousands of dollars.0 -
The big question for police TSMGs...in fact the only question, is How was it registered? Is it on Form 10? If it is, it is out of bounds to anyone excepting another agency or a government chartered museum. If it is registered as transferable, it is worth enough money on its own, and having killed a bank robber is just icing. 0 -
We had two sequentially numbered Thompsons with drum magazines, still in the original wooden boxes, complete with all paperwork showing the route from factory to the agency. Never fired by our folks. Our brain surgeon command traded them along with a group of Reisings, a series of '03 Springfields, a dozen probably mid-60's M-16's (Fwd assist but with pickle fork flash hiders. I'm no expert)and some stainless Mini-14's to a dealer for next to nothing in value against acquisition of some new HK stuff and a credit on account for future purchases. I heard an alleged number for the trade, which, if true, would be almost criminal. No idea on the transferability status. I do know the M-16's were done the right way. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ChrisStreett
We had two sequentially numbered Thompsons with drum magazines, still in the original wooden boxes, complete with all paperwork showing the route from factory to the agency. Never fired by our folks. Our brain surgeon command traded them along with a group of Reisings, a series of '03 Springfields, a dozen probably mid-60's M-16's (Fwd assist but with pickle fork flash hiders. I'm no expert)and some stainless Mini-14's to a dealer for next to nothing in value against acquisition of some new HK stuff and a credit on account for future purchases. I heard an alleged number for the trade, which, if true, would be almost criminal. No idea on the transferability status. I do know the M-16's were done the right way.
Sweet heart deals like this smell, to high haven. Most of the local politicians, who have administrative responsibility over the PD. Don't know squat about guns. And take what they are told by the chief, and other command officers at face value. Likely who ever negotiated the above deal. Got a very substantial early Christmas present, from the dealer. Who scored the goodies.
Boggles the mind, at what just those Thompson's alone are worth. If they have the correct federal paperwork, so that they can be transferable. To a big buck, private party collector.0 -
Very likely Rufe, especially in that city. What would have been even worse, was the mayor at the time wanted them all melted into manhole covers at a nearby steel mill! They were truly a thing of beauty. Our unit has 24/7 access to the entire armory, however, the only weapons not allowed to even be signed out to the range were the Thompsons. I can't begin to tell you how beautiful they looked in those original factory boxes. The Reisings, tried them a few times at the range...the original jam-o-matics. Still nice to even be able to try pieces of history such as they were. 0 -
For a firearm with the potential high value of an original TSMG, the opinions of specialists is always a good idea.
http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?act=idx
These guys live and breath Thompsons, and in many cases they have access to original Auto Ordnance records for examples which are known to belong to police agencies. You might pose your questions to them, but you'll need to provide a serial number. I hope your agency's Thompson proves to be transferable.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ChrisStreett
We had two sequentially numbered Thompsons with drum magazines, still in the original wooden boxes, complete with all paperwork showing the route from factory to the agency. Never fired by our folks. Our brain surgeon command traded them along with a group of Reisings, a series of '03 Springfields, a dozen probably mid-60's M-16's (Fwd assist but with pickle fork flash hiders. I'm no expert)and some stainless Mini-14's to a dealer for next to nothing in value against acquisition of some new HK stuff and a credit on account for future purchases. I heard an alleged number for the trade, which, if true, would be almost criminal. No idea on the transferability status. I do know the M-16's were done the right way.
A new in the crate TSMG, that was transferrable, would go well north of $50K, and quite possible close to or above $100K. Transferrable MG's are expensive, as they do not make any more of them, since 1986...well, 1968, but 1986 was the last year to register them to be transferrable.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ChrisStreett
We had two sequentially numbered Thompsons with drum magazines, still in the original wooden boxes, complete with all paperwork showing the route from factory to the agency. Never fired by our folks. Our brain surgeon command traded them along with a group of Reisings, a series of '03 Springfields, a dozen probably mid-60's M-16's (Fwd assist but with pickle fork flash hiders. I'm no expert)and some stainless Mini-14's to a dealer for next to nothing in value against acquisition of some new HK stuff and a credit on account for future purchases. I heard an alleged number for the trade, which, if true, would be almost criminal. No idea on the transferability status. I do know the M-16's were done the right way.
Yes I had a dealer bring up the issue, and I told him I have low opinion of agency heads who fall for "be hero by saving tax dollars" BS. Mine is still with the box and drum magazine. I talked with a young sheriff from Kansas who went to all kinds of fighting with his historical society who managed to transfer the Thompson to them. He wanted a bunch of stinking AR-15s. He can get them free from the military, as I have. Just made me sick that he traded away his Office heritage in his first year. Our local PD traded theirs off several years ago for some auto sub guns, which they sold off a short time later.
The Federal paperwork is long missing, but I am going to presume it is filed under the "not for public sale" registration. Where should I begin to obtain a copy?0 -
Check with ATFE headquarters. They will have a record if it is legally registered. If not, they will ask you to surrender it.
Neal0 -
You can make an official enquiry as to its registration status to the BATF National Firearms Branch:
National Firearms Act (NFA) Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405
The request must be made on department letterhead and should be signed by someone in authority to make such an enquiry. Provide a full serial number. If the firearm was registered on a Form 10 then it is out of reach to anyone for any purpose and it can only be transferred to another agency or donated to a government chartered museum. On the other hand, it might have been registered on Form 4467 (the amnesty registration form), or by letter, or on a Form 5 (the tax exempt transfer or registration form). If it is on either of those three it is good to go.
Don't be shy about giving us a follow-up on what you find out, and good luck.0
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