MS 1961 in 243 Value Thread
My e-mail bounces back "undeliverable" - just wanted to pass on what I hope is a helpful closing response:
I have a few MS rifles. You've already found the DOM on the left side of the receiver so that top mount D & T is factory original. Regarding the G & H side mount, I don't see this as a value killer. The MS stock was factory designed with a stock cutout and removable sideplate to accommodate G & H or Jaeger, etc side mounts. Often times Pachmayer "swing mounts" were used but are generally not as desirable as G & H or Jaeger. So I wouldn't consider aftermarket D & T on the MS as being typically detrimental to value. If the mount uses the three factory holes holding on the plate it may be no aftermarket work was done. But, G & H typically does 3 holes, 2 pins and obliterates the screwheads for a smooth, well finished surface.
MS realized the split bridge was a PITA for scope mounting and included that side mounting accommodation going back at least to their 1952 model, I have a '52 in 257 Roberts with the feature.
Assuming you can do so, the sideplate could be removed and replaced. I don't think it would be deceptive to do so, so long as the holes are original.
A fellow who sells on GB offers current made "Redfield" style mounts for sale, about $145.00 for base & rings. They are beautifully made, I have a set mounted and they're solid.
For value, the 1961 MCA isn't top of the class but given the excellent shape anywhere from $1,300.00 to $1,700.00 would be a "could sell at" price. Should go pretty quick in CA for lower price, might sit a bit at the higher.
I see you're in SF. Krausewerks in San Mateo, just of El Camino Real & 92 specializes in older guns. They can give you a ballpark value and if you want to sell it they'll put it on consignment. Rather than a set fee their approach is "how much do you want to net?" If you give them a net that's ballpark OK, say $1,200.00 they'll probably put $1,500.00 or so as a price tag.
Your rifle is C & R eligible, folks with C & R/CA COE tend to visit there because we can skip the 10 day wait & "cash & carry" - instant gratification beats waiting 10 days. [;)]
Hope this helps and if the powers that be prefer to lock, I appreciate the leniency of reviving an ended thread.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=689920
Edit: The Blue Book states top D & T started in mid 1965. If MS discontinued the side mounting feature and the stock, action were aftermarket modified I think a case can be made that value is diminished. However I wouldn't be surprised if a 1965 rifle had both features from the factory.
I have a few MS rifles. You've already found the DOM on the left side of the receiver so that top mount D & T is factory original. Regarding the G & H side mount, I don't see this as a value killer. The MS stock was factory designed with a stock cutout and removable sideplate to accommodate G & H or Jaeger, etc side mounts. Often times Pachmayer "swing mounts" were used but are generally not as desirable as G & H or Jaeger. So I wouldn't consider aftermarket D & T on the MS as being typically detrimental to value. If the mount uses the three factory holes holding on the plate it may be no aftermarket work was done. But, G & H typically does 3 holes, 2 pins and obliterates the screwheads for a smooth, well finished surface.
MS realized the split bridge was a PITA for scope mounting and included that side mounting accommodation going back at least to their 1952 model, I have a '52 in 257 Roberts with the feature.
Assuming you can do so, the sideplate could be removed and replaced. I don't think it would be deceptive to do so, so long as the holes are original.
A fellow who sells on GB offers current made "Redfield" style mounts for sale, about $145.00 for base & rings. They are beautifully made, I have a set mounted and they're solid.
For value, the 1961 MCA isn't top of the class but given the excellent shape anywhere from $1,300.00 to $1,700.00 would be a "could sell at" price. Should go pretty quick in CA for lower price, might sit a bit at the higher.
I see you're in SF. Krausewerks in San Mateo, just of El Camino Real & 92 specializes in older guns. They can give you a ballpark value and if you want to sell it they'll put it on consignment. Rather than a set fee their approach is "how much do you want to net?" If you give them a net that's ballpark OK, say $1,200.00 they'll probably put $1,500.00 or so as a price tag.
Your rifle is C & R eligible, folks with C & R/CA COE tend to visit there because we can skip the 10 day wait & "cash & carry" - instant gratification beats waiting 10 days. [;)]
Hope this helps and if the powers that be prefer to lock, I appreciate the leniency of reviving an ended thread.
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=689920
Edit: The Blue Book states top D & T started in mid 1965. If MS discontinued the side mounting feature and the stock, action were aftermarket modified I think a case can be made that value is diminished. However I wouldn't be surprised if a 1965 rifle had both features from the factory.
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Thank You. Very helpful. I posted pics. I thought it was less more like 800-1000.00 0 -
dfletcher,
Any time we can add to our respective knowledge base, it's a good thing. That's why continuation threads are necessary to offset the 10 post rule. New information or more information added to the original thread is always welcome as part II or a continuation.
Best.0 -
I thought I'd weigh in here, too. I too have some of the M-S rifles and carbines. The old Stoeger "Shooter's Bibles" have a wealth of information on these guns since they were the distributers back in the day. As far as the discussion on factory d&t: while I didn't find a date when that was started, the books state that prior to mid-65, the d&t at the split bridge was a metric thread while it was changed after that to 6-48. The Redfield base included both metric and 6-48 screws to fit whichever was needed for that rear base.
These guns had the year of manufacture stamped on both the barrel and the receiver. In checking my rifles I found that the 52 and 53 are not d&t in either the bridge or the receiver. The 57 and 63 are d&t in the bridge only while the 65 and 66 are d&t in both locations. As far as the G&H mount being factory installed: I found in the 1957 issue of the Stoeger catalog, the factory option of installing a Steyr, Leupold, or Pachmayr mount. I didn't find the G&H mount as an option but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I don't know how it could be proved that the mount was factory installed though.
As far as value, I would agree with what has already been posted. I paid $1,600 for a 6.5x54 carbine a few years ago and the 6.5 is a more desirable chambering for collectors.
Hope this helps.0 -
Good information. Thank You. So i guess my estimate of 800-1000.00 for a rifle I described in my original post is accurate ? http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/ap3572001/20170204_174550_zpscfy6tjmr.jpg 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
I thought I'd weigh in here, too. I too have some of the M-S rifles and carbines. The old Stoeger "Shooter's Bibles" have a wealth of information on these guns since they were the distributers back in the day. As far as the discussion on factory d&t: while I didn't find a date when that was started, the books state that prior to mid-65, the d&t at the split bridge was a metric thread while it was changed after that to 6-48. The Redfield base included both metric and 6-48 screws to fit whichever was needed for that rear base.
These guns had the year of manufacture stamped on both the barrel and the receiver. In checking my rifles I found that the 52 and 53 are not d&t in either the bridge or the receiver. The 57 and 63 are d&t in the bridge only while the 65 and 66 are d&t in both locations. As far as the G&H mount being factory installed: I found in the 1957 issue of the Stoeger catalog, the factory option of installing a Steyr, Leupold, or Pachmayr mount. I didn't find the G&H mount as an option but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I don't know how it could be proved that the mount was factory installed though.
As far as value, I would agree with what has already been posted. I paid $1,600 for a 6.5x54 carbine a few years ago and the 6.5 is a more desirable chambering for collectors.
Hope this helps.
My 1952 "half stock" had neither rear bridge nor front ring D & T, side only. I don't know when it began, and I sure don't understand the reasoning behind it, of D & T the rear bridge only and leaving the ring untouched. But mid-65 is what the latest Blue Book states for full topside D & T. BB also lists $1,850.00 for value in 100%, about $1,500.00 for 95% IIRC.
Because of the many variations, that the guns aren't well known even gunstores may be uncertain of pricing. I bought my latest in Eugene, OR and despite the "Model 1952" and "53" stamped receiver/barrel and all the info in the BB, Cabelas conflated this MS with the newer model Steyrs and a) wouldn't consider it C & R and b) undervalued the rifle by about $500.00.0
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