I don't agree at all
"We agreed on the need to free Americans from Obamacare's mandate so Americans are no longer forced to buy insurance they don't need or can't afford," McConnell said on the Senate floor Thursday.
So Americans go without health insurance and show up at the hospital when they get sick with no way to pay for it.
NO ONE plans on getting sick. No one plans on or goes out and buys leukemia! But they WILL show up at the Hospital and want treatment.
Therefore either sign a waiver to go without insurance and if you can't afford treatment we let you bleed to death outside the ER, OR everyone has to have some kind of insurance.
If you are a billionaire I suppose we can allow you a waiver and you can be self insured. How many others can do that?
That may be single payer or private but everyone should have to fund their own healthcare not rely on buying insurance after you get sick or showing up for the public to pick up the cost.
Add a premium surcharge for being fat and/or smoking or drinking but YES everyone should have to pay for their healthcare.
So Americans go without health insurance and show up at the hospital when they get sick with no way to pay for it.
NO ONE plans on getting sick. No one plans on or goes out and buys leukemia! But they WILL show up at the Hospital and want treatment.
Therefore either sign a waiver to go without insurance and if you can't afford treatment we let you bleed to death outside the ER, OR everyone has to have some kind of insurance.
If you are a billionaire I suppose we can allow you a waiver and you can be self insured. How many others can do that?
That may be single payer or private but everyone should have to fund their own healthcare not rely on buying insurance after you get sick or showing up for the public to pick up the cost.
Add a premium surcharge for being fat and/or smoking or drinking but YES everyone should have to pay for their healthcare.
0
-
Bpost.
Some states can and some states can't. Oregon sure as heck can't. Oregon can't even set up an exchange with $350,000,000.00 from the feds. Money gone, nobody knows where. Illinois can't even pay the lottery winners. Good luck there. This does not mean I am in favor of a Federal program. I don't think the Gov. should have one thing to do with it. Medicaid fine but they better qualify. I see guys ten times my condition on 100% disability. my stepson's girl friend is on 100% disability and she works as a dental assistant making $65,000.00 pr year. They live in a $700,000.00 home in Seattle. I'm 80 and working part time to pay property tax. Mad as Hell.0 -
So many people do not understand the concept of insurance, what it is supposed to be, or when they may benefit from purchasing it. Insurance is financial protection for yourself or other entity that purchases it. How insurance and healthcare became so convoluted is a long explanation and I don't care to write it, no doubt I would leave to much out anyway.
If you want to fix the runaway cost of health care it's simple. Demand truth in billing, establish a free market, and get the government out of it as much as is possible.
Catastrophic health insurance plans are the same as auto or home insurance, they are for your financial protection, not so an insurance company can manipulate the market. Every dollar insurance companies spend on healthcare comes with at least a 20% premium. They return about $800 for every $1000 paid into them, and it's really not that much. Americans are not under insured, we, on the whole, are over insured. Being over insured drive the overall price of healthcare up.
The leading cause of inflated healthcare cost is the government followed by insurance companies. A very large percentage of the cost of healthcare is the money it takes to baby sit all the government agencies and regulations that come with them. Administration hours are through the roof. Tack on the extra hours devoted to dotting I's and crossing T's for insurance companies and the %20 premium the they take, and there is more money spent baby sitting government and insurance companies then there is spent on patient care.0 -
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.
YES!0 -
I think it would be great IF we could get Government out of Healthcare.
Medicare/Medicaid is one of the largest payers for health services by the way.
A lot of people seem to forget or ignore the fact is people who choose to go without don't choose to die. They still expect and want treatment.
If this county could stomach allowing those who choose to go without to die that would be great!
BUT it isn't going to happen, so somehow, either single payer or insurance someone has to pay the bill or it gets shared by those who do pay.
My whole point is as "Unamerican" as it is to require insurance, can you pony up 100K for your care? If not are you willing to go lay in a corner and die? Good for you if you are if not how do we get the money for your care when you chose to go without coverage?
I have what amounts to catastrophic coverage, I pay 12K a year for crappy insurance that doesn't pony up a dime until the wife and I have paid out 6500 a piece then it would cover us for the amount over that.
SO for a minimum of 18,500 before the insurance company could take a hit. I would be fine with this coverage IF it was 200 a month like it should be.0 -
How to fix it:
1. Have doctors kill people. A huge slice of health care costs come at the end of life. Because we are Americans and because we believe that every problem can be solved, including death, the last three months of our lives most of us are in the hospital, in the ICU, constantly visiting the doctor, etc. It's a horrible routine, it's awful for the patient and doctor, and you still die anyway. If you're 82, have diabetes, are in poor health, and fall and break your hip, it's time to go. You don't need a $120,000 hip replacement and a $140,000 five months in a nursing home only to die of pneumonia. You've had a good run. It's time to say goodbye. You get a two-night stay in the hospital with some good painkillers, a final visit from the family, and then goodbye.
Along with this, have doctors kill young people who have horrible genetic conditions. There's a teenager, one kid, in Iowa who has hemophilia. His care costs $1,000,000 a month. Yes, a million dollars a month. Assuming he survives, it's going to be a million dollars a month for the rest of his life. It's a terrible condition, a tremendous shame, but we must acknowledge that he is sucking up a huge amount of the health care dollars available to help all. And he's not the only case like that. If your health care is chronically going to cost more than $10,000 a month, I think we need to look at whether or not it's a life worth living.
2. Health insurances costs 3 times as much for fat people, 6 times as much for fat people who smoke. Sorry, but them's the breaks. Fat smokers suck up a huge amount of health dollars, and that's by choice. Put down the Lucky Strike and the Whopper and work out 5 times a week and you risk of developing cancer or heart disease or diabetes plummets.0 -
Fyi...
I had already made my appointment with the hospice care staff - nurses...
I had the end of life consult with my docs and the palliative care docs...
Since the consensus was that I would be dead soon and that it would be unpleasant and that the option on the table - treatment recommendation was morphine and bed rest...
You essentially starve to death - either asleep or in a morphine induced coma.
It's not expensive cars - it's not a particular burden on the system...
But I am still alive - and will beat the cancer this time - delaying the death sentance - deferring the hospice solution.
I am 45 - not in my 80's...
I won't live to see 50 most likely - and I will die a horrible death - in unimaginable pain despite the hospice care and tell morphine assisted suicide method...
Or do you begrudge me this time???
Should I just eat a bullet and step aside???
I pay my taxes and have a job and insurance and always have done so...
What's this last part of my life worth???
Maybe you would like to put the gun to my head and save the rest of you some money...
I hope you get a terminal illness - cancer - something that brings unimaginable pain and suffering...
So you can feel the pain and the panic and go through the ordeal of targeted radiation therapy and chemotherapy treatments.
So your family and loved ones can be their to share it.
Will you go out as you have suggested???
I have fought and suffered and lived - if only for a little more time.
F-you
Burn in hell.
Mike0 -
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
"We agreed on the need to free Americans from Obamacare's mandate so Americans are no longer forced to buy insurance they don't need or can't afford," McConnell said on the Senate floor Thursday.
So Americans go without health insurance and show up at the hospital when they get sick with no way to pay for it.
NO ONE plans on getting sick. No one plans on or goes out and buys leukemia! But they WILL show up at the Hospital and want treatment.
Therefore either sign a waiver to go without insurance and if you can't afford treatment we let you bleed to death outside the ER, OR everyone has to have some kind of insurance.
If you are a billionaire I suppose we can allow you a waiver and you can be self insured. How many others can do that?
That may be single payer or private but everyone should have to fund their own healthcare not rely on buying insurance after you get sick or showing up for the public to pick up the cost.
Add a premium surcharge for being fat and/or smoking or drinking but YES everyone should have to pay for their healthcare.
Seems very few plan on being healthy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Slow down Ace I only disagree that you can't go without and expect others to pay for it. Surely you don't want that?
Easy fix for your scenario, high deductibles, that way you will NOT go to the hospital for a bandaide or Aspirin.
You must have a great idea, so how would you fix all the people who go without and show up at the ER unable to pay?
quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Wonderful plan, mogley.
So when everyone has to buy insurance, they'll go to the hospital every time they need a bandaid or an aspirin. Because they want to get their money's worth.
And because they'll get paid by the insurance broker, the hospital can charge $100 or $1,000 for each bandaid and aspirin.
And to cover that, the broker will eventually have to up everybody's premiums to a million dollars a year.
So now, nobody can afford either the insurance or the medical care.
Yup, GREAT plan there, bud.
Wrong question Sir.
The question is why is the federal government involved in health care at all? The states can take care of their citizens much better than the Federal Monster can. If Ohio sends 4 billion to DC the feds strip 30% for operating expenses and stupid regulations then send the remainder back to the states with moronic mandates that serve few except for DC wealth, corruption and crony capitalism.
Cut out the middle man.
Get the feds the hell out of health care. If you want to see the PERFECT example of Federal Healthcare in action look no further than the VA nightmare. When the VA does not like the results of investigations they simply lie; changing nothing letting more vets die.
Bpost nailed it. End of story0 -
If we, as a country, demand that health care facilities must provide treatment, regardless of ability to pay, then we must also demand that people buy insurance that they do not want....because we simply cannot afford to pay for the former without the support of the latter.
It really is as simple as that.0 -
Exactly
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
If we, as a country, demand that health care facilities must provide treatment, regardless of ability to pay, then we must also demand that people buy insurance that they do not want....because we simply cannot afford to pay for the former without the support of the latter.
It really is as simple as that.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
How to fix it:
1. Have doctors kill people. A huge slice of health care costs come at the end of life. Because we are Americans and because we believe that every problem can be solved, including death, the last three months of our lives most of us are in the hospital, in the ICU, constantly visiting the doctor, etc. It's a horrible routine, it's awful for the patient and doctor, and you still die anyway. If you're 82, have diabetes, are in poor health, and fall and break your hip, it's time to go. You don't need a $120,000 hip replacement and a $140,000 five months in a nursing home only to die of pneumonia. You've had a good run. It's time to say goodbye. You get a two-night stay in the hospital with some good painkillers, a final visit from the family, and then goodbye.
Along with this, have doctors kill young people who have horrible genetic conditions. There's a teenager, one kid, in Iowa who has hemophilia. His care costs $1,000,000 a month. Yes, a million dollars a month. Assuming he survives, it's going to be a million dollars a month for the rest of his life. It's a terrible condition, a tremendous shame, but we must acknowledge that he is sucking up a huge amount of the health care dollars available to help all. And he's not the only case like that. If your health care is chronically going to cost more than $10,000 a month, I think we need to look at whether or not it's a life worth living.
2. Health insurances costs 3 times as much for fat people, 6 times as much for fat people who smoke. Sorry, but them's the breaks. Fat smokers suck up a huge amount of health dollars, and that's by choice. Put down the Lucky Strike and the Whopper and work out 5 times a week and you risk of developing cancer or heart disease or diabetes plummets.
I wondered who they would get to participate in the death panels under govt managed health care. Now I know or maybe you forgot the green font.0 -
What the fiasco known as "Obamacare" has done is now the popular belief is that health care is a right, to be furnished by the Government, whether you want it or not.
The problems in the health care industry ten years ago could have been
eased without all the hell we have been thru since. Costs were out of hand and Government interference was already making it worse.
I would really like to know who has benefited from the past 8 years of this mess.
I know people that not only lost their health insurance, but their jobs because of it. I personally know no one who gained from it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
If we, as a country, demand that health care facilities must provide treatment, regardless of ability to pay, then we must also demand that people buy insurance that they do not want....because we simply cannot afford to pay for the former without the support of the latter.
It really is as simple as that.
"We" as a country do not demand everybody get health care or other services for free, the rest of your argument falls apart.
Insurance is not healthcare either.0 -
The basis of the problem is the people. at least 40% of the people don't seem to understand where the government gets it's money from.
Benjamin Franklin warned us about this in the 1700's. Then the politicians pander to the stupid people to provide their demands. The trick for them is to figure out how to make them pay for the so called free stuff without them knowing it. Lately that isn't hard. About 70% of college kids think they can get free college. What they don't know is they will have to pay for everybody else for the rest of their lives.
Argentina here we come.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by skicat
Mandatory insurance is un American. We don't need health insurance, we need competitive health care. Competition dives pricing to a natural level. Insurance companies drive the cost of health care and that is backwards. People get sick and die no matter which system we finally choose. The path we are on guarantees the enrichment of the insurers, who don't actually accomplish any health care.
I agree 100% with you in a perfect world, but we both know insurance based health care is not going away.
I expect you are right but it really sticks in my craw to admit it. It is like accepting your grocery bill will double because the whole family now has tapeworms and nobody wants to even discus getting rid of them as it is easier to just pay more for groceries.
The costs for both insurance and the actual care are OUT OF CONTROL. I pay almost 9K a year for my plan,....which is excellent BTW. $500.00 deductible, $2,500.00 max out of pocket, which includes prescriptions.
Here's where the issue is. I can easily afford this due to the amount of money I make. On the other hand, I personally know some good folks that work hard, but don't make a lot of money. What I pay for insurance would take 1/3 or more of their net pay for the year.
I know one guy that is having obvious hypertension/heart issues, but he can't afford to see a doctor or the almost certain prescriptions, so he ignores it. He falls in that gap where he can't go to the county health clinic, and can't get prescription assistance from the drug manufacturers.
There is a small slice of the population that are good people that fall in between the assistance deadbeats, and those that are doing well. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.0 -
only our congress would make a plan so complicated that they would have to have agencies in every state to explain...Kansas had 40 options...and SUBSIDIES ?????...way stupid..either it is affordable or NOT 0 -
Dead beats and illegals know there's free healthcare at the ER. Oh and the Emergency ambulance is treated like a taxi by them too.
Yep that's why there's so many in the waiting area. Guess who's footing their bills?
If NARCAN is free to dying drug addict OD's why is life saving/prolonging drugs not also free to those in need?0 -
seems to me the plans to give tax credits or subsidies to some sounds like the old mines who hired miners, paid them work, required them to live in mine houses, and buy everything at the mine store...and eventually move away with nothing 0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
48 comments