LAW ENFORCEMENT GUYS Self Inflicted Gun Shot
Hi Guys!
An internet acquaintance of mine asked a question about a situation involving a loved one. Can a person shoot one round out of a Beretta 92 style weapon without a magazine in it and not have any GSR on their hands at all?
An internet acquaintance of mine asked a question about a situation involving a loved one. Can a person shoot one round out of a Beretta 92 style weapon without a magazine in it and not have any GSR on their hands at all?
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The person who is asking, is asking about a situation involving a loved one who presumably died of an accidental self inflicted gun shot wound yet:
In 199#, I found ** ** ******** dead. Single gunshot to the head. No gsr on his hands. Weapon was a 9mm Taurus. The magazine was several feet away from the body. My ******* was right handed but the gun was found on the left side of ***** body and his arms were crossed. The case was officially closed as a suicide. Death Certificate says "accidental gun shot wound". If there was no gsr on my ****** hands, could he still have been able to fire the gun?
Therefore, there were no gloves involved presumably.0 -
Do you know for fact that they swabbed the deceased hands for GSR? Our Forensic Lab stopped doing GSR years ago for suicides. 0 -
Did he know Hillary?
Be careful in your search for the truth. Could run deep, or not.0 -
The guidelines we worked with would require that the homicide unit would investigate that death.
They would have a full forensic team collect evidence. And then and only then a determination would be made.0 -
quote:Originally posted by GreatGuns
quote:Originally posted by mag00
Did he know Hillary?
Be careful in your search for the truth. Could run deep, or not.
Seriously?! That's just stupid. Everything here isn't about your glorious Hillary. [B)]
Sorry that went right over your head. Better luck next time.0 -
It's not unusual to find the gun under the body in this type of incident. So, obviously the gun would be propelled towards the floor by recoil before the body has a chance to crumple on top of it. Lack of GSR wouldn't surprise me, especially with a semi-auto.
Neal0 -
Sounds to me like there needs to be more information gathered in order to determine a cause. Just from the little given here there would certainly be cause to continue to investigate. 0 -
I had a more extensive conversation with the person who wanted to know more about GSR and if it is reasonable to figure that someone can shoot a semi auto pistol once and not have any GSR on their hands.
I still need to know more to come up with a personal opinion on whether or not it is reasonable to suspect foul play in the matter. The bigger question that I have than what happened in the case is; (playing devil's advocate here) What can be done ~30 years after local authorities covered up a murder and closed the case?
I had more questions for the person, but I figured that I would be doing more harm than good continuing to inquire, if there is nothing that can be done. What do you guys think? Law enforcement and lawyers in particular are encouraged to answer.
~30 years after the fact. If local authorities covered up or botched a case and closed it. Is there anything that can be done anyway? To me it seems that there is nothing that can be done. What do you guys think? Law enforcement and lawyers in particular are encouraged to answer.0 -
will tell you that there is some funny business when dealing with "suicides."
I worked as a paramedic in a small southern town for many years. In Georgia, the coroner is elected. Our coroner was an old used car salesman with no medical experience, Southern Gentleman type.
"Mr. Mark" meant well and usually did a good job but I saw some funny business. Worked one call where a guy had shot himself with a rifle.
It was a bolt action .270. Guy had a little hole in the middle of his back and a 3 inch hole in the middle of his chest.
His "grieving" wife was there, just weeping and crying. "Mr. Mark" showed up after about 30 minutes, there at midnight, he was hugging the new widow and telling her it was all going to be all right.
Never even convened a coroner's jury. Suicide.
Word was that the man was known to beat up his wife.
Another one, we had a prominent citizen, a Veterinarian about 50 years old, his wife went out in the garden at midnight, in her night gown, she was so distressed she shot herself in the head with a .38
There she was, laying there dead with a bullet wound to the head, there was the .38, there was the grieving, crying husband.
Well, I had worked lots of suicides and it is almost unheard of for a woman to shoot herself. Men do it, but rarely if ever, women.
Also, a Southern Lady is going to go out in the dark and kill herself wearing a more or less see through nighty? And all the cops and medics will see her like that? FISHY.
No coroner's jury on that one either, funny, just 3 months later the grieving widower married his pretty office assistant who was 20 years younger than the deceased wife.0 -
30 yr old case.
Had the case originally been investigated as a murder,even if went cold for 30 years,it would still be an open and pending investigation. If/when solved the person(s) could still be charged.
In this case,it was never investigated,ruled suicide,and closed. No authority will re-open investigate this case with out some very interesting new evidence. Will they iniate looking for that evidence? No.
Best option,hire a private investigator,to find that missing evidence to present to re-open this case. A P.I. will not come cheap.
I'm sorry. Good luck.0 -
People who commit suicide are a strange lot, sometimes. Occasionally a suicide will be made to look like something else, and sometimes a murder will be made to look like a suicide.
I read about one guy who had a 30/30 set up so it would fire at a chair when the door was opened. Then he called his estranged wife and sat in the chair. When she opened the door he was killed. But if the guy thought his wife would be charged with murder he was mistaken.
Usually the investigating officers develop a feeling for whether something is 'right' or not. And after 30 years there is not much chance of this going anywhere barring a confession.
Was there a large life insurance policy or any other financial gains? That should have been looked at 30 years ago.
Also, my Taurus 99, which is similar to the Beretta and made on Beretta machinery,
WILL fire without the mag.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 7.62x39Lover
I had a more extensive conversation with the person who wanted to know more about GSR and if it is reasonable to figure that someone can shoot a semi auto pistol once and not have any GSR on their hands.
I still need to know more to come up with a personal opinion on whether or not it is reasonable to suspect foul play in the matter. The bigger question that I have than what happened in the case is; (playing devil's advocate here) What can be done ~30 years after local authorities covered up a murder and closed the case?
I had more questions for the person, but I figured that I would be doing more harm than good continuing to inquire, if there is nothing that can be done. What do you guys think? Law enforcement and lawyers in particular are encouraged to answer.
~30 years after the fact. If local authorities covered up or botched a case and closed it. Is there anything that can be done anyway? To me it seems that there is nothing that can be done. What do you guys think? Law enforcement and lawyers in particular are encouraged to answer.
There would have to be compelling evidence to justify exhuming the the remains, assuming he wasn't cremated. If the gun was still preserved in evidence, perhaps an examination for touch DNA could be performed. However the gun is likely gone as well after 30 years. If there isn't a witness to provide new information that points to homicide, or a confession from the killer it's not likely to be re-examined.
Thirty years later, a family member who is in denial about their loved one committing suicide can convince themselves of circumstances that may not have actually been in place at the time of the event.0
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