Catalytic converter interchangeability?
One of my cars is a 2013 Subaru Outback. It is starting to look like I will need a new catalytic converter. Here's the rub. Even though I am in NV and have no plans to ever sell it in CA, it does have a CA-compliant cat converter on there now. If I get a replacement that is CA compliant, it runs about $1300. If I get a cat that fits that car that is NOT compliant with CA it is only about $300. Seems like a simple choice doesn't it? But, if I put on the less expensive non-CA cat converter, will it cause the sensor to keep throwing error codes, check engine, etc, since it may not process the exhaust the same way as the CA cat converter? Or is that all BS and I should go ahead and get the converter that is legal in 47 states, not including CA? I sure would like to save a grand. [:)] Any of you mechanic-smart guys out there have an input? Thanks.
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From what I've been able to gather, it'll throw a code because of the O2 sensors, and won't run right. That's if it was made in 2009 or later, and/or was sold new as a CARB compliant car. 0 -
Does Nevada have a smog check? If the cheaper option passes smog check in Nevada then go cheap.
Also 8 years on a cat seems kind a short.0 -
No smog check in my NV county. Yeah, I agree on the age comment. The federally mandated cat warranty is 8 years or 80,000 miles. Unfortunately this one is over on the mileage so the dealership won't honor a warranty. Right now, every couple of weeks it throws a P0420 then resets for a couple of weeks. I suppose I could put in the less expensive cat model and then put the adapter on the rear O2 sensor to keep it from registering the error code. But, I would prefer not to have to use that adapter. I am hoping that even though it won't meet California standards that it would still function well enough to keep the error code from reoccurring. Right now, even when P0420 is reporting, the car runs absolutely normal. 0 -
You might want to determine if you have a problem that caused the cat to go bad and set the O2 sensor code before replacing the cat. Head gasket??? 0 -
Cats will outlast O2 Sensors. If the Cat is indeed bad, you have another problem (as said above, check that you aren't burning oil or coolant).
Screw the CA Cat. If someone from CA wants it, make them pay for it and keep that grand in your bank. Lots of Subarus all over the place, not one from CA is going to travel out of state to get one. You'll sell it locally in no time.0 -
quote:P0420 code stands for ?Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1).? When you receive a P0420 code it means your catalytic converter is not operating at maximum efficiency. Usually this means your catalytic converter needs to be replaced or there is a problem with your O2 (oxygen) sensors
Do you have a cat on each bank? If it was mine, I would switch the O2 sensors, and see if the code moved to bank 2, or stayed on bank 1. This would tell you if the problem is indeed with the converter, or it's an O2 sensor issue.
I have cleaned O2 sensors in the past to clear up fault codes.0 -
In CA the first thing a smog tester looks at is the cat to see if it is the correct one and if not an automatic fail whether the car will pass a running test or not. 0 -
not in cally then use the other converter, if it continues to through codes (which it may not) then change both sensors they are a lot cheaper then a grand to replace but before you do anything check with a dealership because that converter may have a warranty for 10 years. 0 -
Catalytic converters are warrantied for 5 years/50k miles. 0 -
O2 sensors get "Lazy", so I would replace that first.
Then, "Someone" might find the right resistor to bridge the O2 sensor plug, and a straight pipe might plug the leak under the car...0 -
quote:Originally posted by beneteau
Catalytic converters are warrantied for 5 years/50k miles.
I believe the federal mandate is 8 years or 80000 miles0 -
quote:Originally posted by andrewsw16
No smog check in my NV county. Yeah, I agree on the age comment. The federally mandated cat warranty is 8 years or 80,000 miles. Unfortunately this one is over on the mileage so the dealership won't honor a warranty. Right now, every couple of weeks it throws a P0420 then resets for a couple of weeks. I suppose I could put in the less expensive cat model and then put the adapter on the rear O2 sensor to keep it from registering the error code. But, I would prefer not to have to use that adapter. I am hoping that even though it won't meet California standards that it would still function well enough to keep the error code from reoccurring. Right now, even when P0420 is reporting, the car runs absolutely normal.
put a converter cleaner in the gas and if that doesn't stop the code replace the sensor/sensors...????????...sorry I missed this first time. there are other things also that can cause the code to go in and out like a bad or loose wire, exhaust leaks or issues, etc.
Live data from a scanner would be helpful to diagnose real issue.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beneteau
Catalytic converters are warrantied for 5 years/50k miles.
I believe the federal mandate is 8 years or 80000 miles0 -
No smog check? Then knock the cat out [:D].
Straight pipe that. Zoomies? Put 8 zoomies even if most are just decorations [:D][:D][:D].0 -
Was in the exhaust business selling cats & mufflers for 22 years. Subaru?s are the absolute worst when it comes to cats. Your car is still under warranty if it?s got less than 8 years/80K miles and you?re the original owner. MANY times the cats on Subaru?s trip converter codes but the cats aren?t really bad. They are covered in carbon, then the cat can?t light off. I would suggest getting what?s called a motor vac first to get rid of that carbon. Products from like Run Rite or BG44 etc can clean up that carbon. As to getting a California compliant cat, if your car has California emissions you should put on a EPA compliant cat that is meant for a car with California emissions. It can be confusing but obd2 cars that have California emissions have cats that are loaded hotter. To add more confusion there?s a total difference between California Emissions and California Compliant. Unless you are registering the car in California or plan on selling it IN California you only need a cat that?s good for California Emissions and NOT California Compliant. If you put a cat that?s not California Compliant it would not pass a smog test IN California and therefore couldn?t even be registered there without putting a Compliant cat on. My advice is address the carbon buildup first. And if you need a cat just put one that?s meant for a car with California emissions in the 48 States (California, NY have their own rules). And with Subaru?s do not skimp on quality or you will regret it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pip5255
quote:Originally posted by beneteau
Catalytic converters are warrantied for 5 years/50k miles.
I believe the federal mandate is 8 years or 80000 miles
5 years/50K is on aftermarket cats... and to those saying just knock the guts out and drive it you risk engine damage and terrible fuel economy. These aren?t 1970?s cars where you could do that. The computer will go nuts trying to compensate for the bricks being gone. And of course you risk a Federal felony for tampering with an emissions device...have a former customer who was caught and cost him big time.0 -
Thank goodness I live in a state that did away with vehicle inspections. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ruger41
quote:Originally posted by pip5255
quote:Originally posted by beneteau
Catalytic converters are warrantied for 5 years/50k miles.
I believe the federal mandate is 8 years or 80000 miles
5 years/50K is on aftermarket cats... and to those saying just knock the guts out and drive it you risk engine damage and terrible fuel economy. These aren?t 1970?s cars where you could do that. The computer will go nuts trying to compensate for the bricks being gone. And of course you risk a Federal felony for tampering with an emissions device...have a former customer who was caught and cost him big time.
Straight from aftermarket Manaflow. quote:Catalytic Converters are emission control devices which are designed to last the life of the vehicle and do not normally require replacement. Furthermore, if the vehicle is properly used and maintained, original converters are covered by the emission control warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles.
Why I used one on my Jeep.
I do have to agree about knocking the guts out and running that way. Your engine will run very lean which is not good.0 -
My cat went out on my Tacoma at around 150K.
Oddly enough a lot of manufacturers still consider the life of a vehicle 100k miles which seems ridiculous to me given that quality well maintained modern vehicles can go beyond 200 or 300 thousand miles easily.
I replaced the cat after checking that I was not burning coolant, burning oil, or running to rich or lean. I bought one of rock auto for about 300 bucks, no problems after almost 20k miles.
My truck is CA compliant. Being that I don't live in California and never intend to, I am not worried about CA laws.0 -
Thanks guys. My Suby is over on mileage at 88000 but under on age since it is only a 2013. The local dealership wasn't willing to do the cat work under warranty but gave me a number at corporate and told me to call them. They might take pity and give me a deal. I would normally just get the cheap cat and put it on. The only drawback is that car has the PZEV emissions package and I am afraid that the non-CA cat might send the wrong readings to the engine computer and cause it to incorrectly adjust the fuel mixture. The dealership claimed that MIGHT happen. They didn't know since they had never put the non-CA compliant cat on a car that was supposed to have it. What a pain in the tuchus! On my old Firebird, back in the 70's I just took the damned thing off and put in a straight pipe. It ran fine after that. [;)] 0 -
Make sure you fix whatever is causing your po420/430 codes to come on because if you don?t your light will come back on in short order with new converters and you?ll be back at square one. Regular oil changes help get rid of carbon. Also very cold climates can sometimes cause Subaru?s to have the cats not light off because the vehicle isn?t getting up to a warm enough temperature. I had that happen a lot to my Alaska and Montana accounts. But unless the bricks of the cats are broken up or melted down I?d do a de carbon of the engine and the cats. That worked a lot. This stuff worked the best of anything else I saw in addition to a motor vacuum.
http://www.run-rite.com/consumers/fuelsystem.html0 -
quote:Originally posted by andrewsw16
Thanks guys. My Suby is over on mileage at 88000 but under on age since it is only a 2013. The local dealership wasn't willing to do the cat work under warranty but gave me a number at corporate and told me to call them. They might take pity and give me a deal. I would normally just get the cheap cat and put it on. The only drawback is that car has the PZEV emissions package and I am afraid that the non-CA cat might send the wrong readings to the engine computer and cause it to incorrectly adjust the fuel mixture. The dealership claimed that MIGHT happen. They didn't know since they had never put the non-CA compliant cat on a car that was supposed to have it. What a pain in the tuchus! On my old Firebird, back in the 70's I just took the damned thing off and put in a straight pipe. It ran fine after that. [;)]
Check rock auto... Im willing to bet that IF they have a CA compliant cat that it would be cheaper than most places.
Remember that for most vehicles the difference between Ca compliant and the rest of America is simply a certification that costs lots of money... The manufacturers don't make high profits by having to churn out different variations of the same basic part.
Your aftermarket companies generally don't seek Ca certification as it's very expensive and the majority of the customers don't need it.
So a regular aftermarket cat designed for your vehicle will more than likely work unless you ever have to get it inspected in CA.
Either way... Shop around and good luck!0 -
quote:My cat went out on my Tacoma at around 150K.
My truck is CA compliant. Being that I don't live in California and never intend to, I am not worried about CA laws
The cat in my '06 Tacoma went out at around 185K. Unfortunately I do live in CA. I went to a guy I know with a muffler shop and he said don't even try to put aftermarket on it because it would fail smog inspection. Dealer only item at that time in CA. If the dealer had told me that I'd have shopped around, but I did business with this guys dad on motorcycle parts for years, so I knew the family could be trusted. $2400 ($80 of that was labor) for the cat and O2 sensors. When I went into the dealer to pick up the truck the mechanic picked up my old cat and poured the guts out of it like sand.0 -
If you lived in Nebraska would you worry about the California emissions requirements?
You don?t live in CA- make the 49 state legal fix and move on.0 -
Don't sell it to someone in Ca someday. No restrictions what so ever in SC. Vehicle inspections were gone a long time ago. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by alias
quote:My cat went out on my Tacoma at around 150K.
My truck is CA compliant. Being that I don't live in California and never intend to, I am not worried about CA laws
The cat in my '06 Tacoma went out at around 185K. Unfortunately I do live in CA. I went to a guy I know with a muffler shop and he said don't even try to put aftermarket on it because it would fail smog inspection. Dealer only item at that time in CA. If the dealer had told me that I'd have shopped around, but I did business with this guys dad on motorcycle parts for years, so I knew the family could be trusted. $2400 ($80 of that was labor) for the cat and O2 sensors. When I went into the dealer to pick up the truck the mechanic picked up my old cat and poured the guts out of it like sand.
Wow! That is rough and I'll bet you wallet felt much lighter for a while... The CAT I purchased was about 300 bucks. I used the original O2 sensors as the modern ones on Toyota vehicles last a very very long time.... When I took the old cat off I couldn't even see light on the other side of the pipe even when I held a bright flashlight up to the other end! :-( I think my cat failed because I make a lot of short trips that barely get my engine up to operating temps sometimes... So my cat likely rarely gothot enough to burn off all the soot..... By the time the check engine light came on, it was to late to save it... Tried the cat cleaner and all that stuff but it never made the code go away.
I, like you , could not believe the cost of a Toyota cat.... My local dealer quoted me 1900 dollars!
I am very fortunate I am able to live where I do.0 -
quote:Wow! That is rough and I'll bet you wallet felt much lighter for a while...
Oddly enough I had bought a lottery ticket from the gas station up the road from the house about a month before. Thought I hit the big time with a win of around $150, and when I went to collect they told me I was wrong. It was actually $6096. After taxes just under $4600, and the check came just before the cat died. Wife and a woman I used to work with who is a good friend of ours got half the money and went on a week long cruise, I got a catalytic converter for my truck.
Oh well, I had a peaceful week at home with the dog, the TV and store bought fried chicken and salad.0
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