NO IMPORT MARKS
Over the years I have seen military surplus rifles being offered as GI bring backs.
In reality guns imported during the 50s and early 60s did not require import marking.
Most of these sellers do not have capture papers for these items, and are listing them as captures as a way to get a premium for the item. WHAT DO YOU SAY.
In reality guns imported during the 50s and early 60s did not require import marking.
Most of these sellers do not have capture papers for these items, and are listing them as captures as a way to get a premium for the item. WHAT DO YOU SAY.
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quote:Originally posted by 1FMJ
Over the years I have seen military surplus rifles being offered as GI bring backs.
In reality guns imported during the 50s and early 60s did not require import marking.
Most of these sellers do not have capture papers for these items, and are listing them as captures as a way to get a premium for the item. WHAT DO YOU SAY.
While I agree with what you are saying, my Dad was a 32yr. Army Lifer ABN CSM. served in WWII, Korea, Vietnam. He had bring backs from each War. I have some, my Brother has some, and my Brother in Law has some. (We are all Army Vets.) There is no paperwork on any that I have seen.0 -
I also have two brought back by my father and my father in-law, that have no papers.
If there are no papers nor statements from sons or daughters, what you have is a gun and a story, worth exactly the same as the gun alone. Almost everyone here knows that.0 -
I say: You should know what you are looking at before you buy anything.
I even see USGI issued guns advertised as bring backs (by law, bring backs must have been manufactured in a foreign country). Some are even offered with "provenance"; to be accurate, such "provenance" would have to state "I swear that I stole this Colt SN 123456789 from the US government". (Some officers have been allowed to buy their issued gun.)
Neal0 -
My dad brought back a 98 during wwll. He said they would pull the bolts and throw them in a pile, rifles in another. A mismatched serial # is
not that uncommon on bringbacks as many didn't take the time to find a
match.0 -
There are several varieties of capture papers, but by far the most common is this example: 
If this certification, or something close to it, is not present with the firearm then the old adage of "Believe the gun and not the story" may well apply.
It is worth noting (or maybe just more useless info for me to pass along) that the section of the War Department mentioned in the certificate maintains that no machineguns may be released for importation and that military personnel are limited to a single War Trophy. Prior to the that date, there were no limits on War Trophies, including machineguns, for Army and Army Air Force personnel. The US Navy adopted a policy on 30 November, 1944 which limited Navy, Marines, US Coast Guard and and Merchant Marines to a single firearm and prohibited retaining machineguns as War Trophies. Based on the huge numbers of WWII era machineguns registered during the 1968 NFA Amnesty, it appears these regulations were not enforced with any vigor.
The Navy specifically excluded civilians, so if you were (say) a tech rep from Grumman and aboard an American aircraft carrier in the Pacific (and there were quite a few techs afloat during the war) the War Trophy provisions did not apply and your imports would have to go through official channels and clear US Customs before release...good luck with that! The US Army had no such exclusion for civilians assigned to the Army, who could bring back War Trophies in the same manner as Army personnel.0 -
Thats what i'm talking about.I personal do not consider a capture without the certificate,
as being a real capture. Growing upI saw tons of foreign guns for sale that were imported
and were not import marked. Carcano and Arasaka in barrels of grease for $5 and German 8mm for $10 This is why I am wary of any capture rifle with proper paper work.0 -
In all the years (decades) I worked in a gunshop and did the gunshow circuit I only once ever saw or handled bring back paperwork connected to a firearm brought back by a vet...
When people died and guns passed on or people sold guns as they got older the paperwork disappeared
Rarer then hens teeth back in the day and now like unobtainium
Having correct paperwork increases the value of a gun multiple times over at this point - the paperwork being more valued than the gun itself in most cases
Similarly duffle cut guns seemed to dry up and disappear in the early 80's - once commonly encountered now never seen
Non import Mark guns bring more money than import marked examples - just a fact of life and market conditions
Plus I believe that many guns came back with no paperwork - especially handguns
Jmho
Mike0 -
My dad got his out of a pile about 2 miles inland from the Juno beachhead. Says something about the German quality, the bolt he grabbed headspaced perfectly. 0 -
No worries, I won't be trying to sell you the Walther my father brought back, because it has no paper. 0 -
i have an Arisaka my Uncle Hubert brought back from MacArthur's island campaign. My mother told me of meeting him at the train in Charleston WVa and him having this big ol rifle slung over his shoulder. i dont have any papers but i know what i have. 0
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