Breaking..Mattis is out
The Mad Dog is leaving before February.
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quote:Originally posted by us55840
His choice as he resigned.
Better to leave on his own than hang on and screw things up.
[8D]
At that level, it is not uncommon to be informed that you are resigning. It allows someone to leave with some dignity while not being told: "You're Fired!".0 -
Trump wants to bring troops home and Mattis believes the United States has to be the Worlds police force.. I am tired of spending Trillions of dollars and American lives lost in Countries that do not even want us there,,let them sort their own poop out 0 -
Trump is done. Prepare accordingly. 
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Evidently Mattis was not if favor of the pull out. 0 -
Maybe have Hillary step in. She has dodged sniper fire in Kosovo, beat the stock market to death in futures in one night, ran a progressive charity and dodged many arrows thrown here way. She is bullet proof so that makes her good to go. 0 -
I think there?s a time and a place to deflect, but this aint it.
quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper
Maybe have Hillary step in. She has dodged sniper fire in Kosovo, beat the stock market to death in futures in one night, ran a progressive charity and dodged many arrows thrown here way. She is bullet proof so that makes her good to go.0 -
Wasn't it the Liberals always screaming to get the US out of the Worlds business?
Now that President Trump is doing it, They're screaming that he's giving up on the World!
Fricken Commies.0 -
So who is the fool...
Who is the court jester...
He campaigned on a promise of pulling our troops out of Syria
Now we are upset because he did what he said he would do
Caveat emptor
Mike0 -
I've been a Mattis fan ever since he was my Division commander in Iraq.
I understand his position re: Syria and Afghanistan...but I agree with the President that it does not benefit America to be in either of those hell holes.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sharpshooter039
Trump wants to bring troops home and Mattis believes the United States has to be the Worlds police force.. I am tired of spending Trillions of dollars and American lives lost in Countries that do not even want us there,,let them sort their own poop out
+10 on this one.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
I've been a Mattis fan ever since he was my Division commander in Iraq.
I understand his position re: Syria and Afghanistan...but I agree with the President that it does not benefit America to be in either of those hell holes.
I never served under Mattis. But I agree. We shouldn't have our troops all over the world. We've got American troops dying in poophole countries. Pull them out.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Warbirds
Trump is done. Prepare accordingly.
Actually, Mattis is done.
No man is irreplaceable.
Preparation, IMO, is to accept the fact that we may have a Sec. Def. who is less of an advocate for US meddling at the far corners, nooks and crannies of our interest.
Probably for the best.
Now if only Bolton would leave....0 -
Apparently at odds with Trump (isn't everyone working for him?) for some time and I think the Syrian withdrawal was the final straw. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doc
Apparently at odds with Trump (isn't everyone working for him?) for some time and I think the Syrian withdrawal was the final straw.
From the NYTime, 8 months ago.
April 4, 2018
WASHINGTON ? President Trump has instructed his military commanders to quickly wrap up the American military operation in Syria so that he can bring troops home within a few months, senior administration officials said on Wednesday. He dropped his insistence on an immediate withdrawal, they said, after commanders told him they needed time to complete their mission.
There seems to not be a 'final straw' regarding the Syrian withdrawal.
Apparently Mattis was given a mission by his Commanding Officer 8 months ago. When he failed, his Commanding officer had to relieve him.0 -
Whether we should be in Syria is one issue. How a draw down should be done is another. This withdrawal announcement was initiated on twitter with no advice on the administrative or logistical requirements or the political ramifications of such a spontaneous declaration. No heads up to allies, government agencies, or the pentagon. What happened to "don't tell the enemy your plans?" The president actually told the enemy his plans before he discussed them with his own forces! Crudely initiated at best. Instant debacle. Worst of all, such a spontaneous announcement leaves the troops and their allies, in a combat zone and unclear about their near-term plan or future. I'm sure Mattis found this to be deplorable, as he understands the commitment to troop welfare and what the ramifications can be to be uninformed in the field, where those that shun such advice, and have no such experience, do not. Throw a bucket of manure at the fan and let everyone scramble to clean it up. Secretary Mattis' departure will be the last adult leaving the room. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by drl50
Whether we should be in Syria is one issue. How a draw down should be done is another. This withdrawal announcement was initiated on twitter with no advice on the administrative or logistical requirements or the political ramifications of such a spontaneous declaration. No heads up to allies, government agencies, or the pentagon. What happened to "don't tell the enemy your plans?" The president actually told the enemy his plans before he discussed them with his own forces! Crudely initiated at best. Instant debacle. Worst of all, such a spontaneous announcement leaves the troops and their allies, in a combat zone and unclear about their near-term plan or future. I'm sure Mattis found this to be deplorable, as he understands the commitment to troop welfare and what the ramifications can be to be uninformed in the field, where those that shun such advice, and have no such experience, do not. Throw a bucket of manure at the fan and let everyone scramble to clean it up. Secretary Mattis' departure will be the last adult leaving the room.
IF you follow the story Madis was told over 8 months ago to get it going. He did not, he wants to continue holding the hands of people who hate us. Funny if Barry, or Swill would have done this the liberal media would be making him PERSON OF THE YEAR , again.0 -
quote:Originally posted by GreatGuns
quote:Originally posted by drl50
Whether we should be in Syria is one issue. How a draw down should be done is another. This withdrawal announcement was initiated on twitter with no advice on the administrative or logistical requirements or the political ramifications of such a spontaneous declaration. No heads up to allies, government agencies, or the pentagon. What happened to "don't tell the enemy your plans?" The president actually told the enemy his plans before he discussed them with his own forces! Crudely initiated at best. Instant debacle. Worst of all, such a spontaneous announcement leaves the troops and their allies, in a combat zone and unclear about their near-term plan or future. I'm sure Mattis found this to be deplorable, as he understands the commitment to troop welfare and what the ramifications can be to be uninformed in the field, where those that shun such advice, and have no such experience, do not. Throw a bucket of manure at the fan and let everyone scramble to clean it up. Secretary Mattis' departure will be the last adult leaving the room.
Well said. What a mess and I expect it to get much worse, really fast. [V]
Apparently the two of you have not followed the story.
Mattis was given plenty of notice. As SecDef, he for some reason did not use the 8 months to prepare our military and our military allies for the exit.
At some point a subordinate needs to perform.
It looks like Mattis did not perform.
Granted, it is a difficult task. Perhaps he should have stood up in 2003 instead of leading the 1st Marine Division in the into the debacle that created this mess in the first place.0 -
Bring the men home now, I know from experience it's a"bitch" walking by seeing able bodied men sitting around on boxes doing nothing while we do their fighting and dying so their country can live in peace [:(!]. With Trump I agree 100% [;)]..........with Mattis.......well bye ! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by GreatGuns
Okay Don [;)]
OK What?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/world/middleeast/trump-syria-troops.html
Information is your friend.
From the link:
At the meeting, Mr. Trump?s top military advisers told him they had drawn up plans to pull American troops out of Syria immediately. But they also presented a plan for the forces to stay longer to clean out the residual pockets of Islamic State fighters and to train local forces to stabilize the liberated territory so that the group could not regain a foothold.
?How long do you need to do that?? the frustrated president asked Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Joseph F. Dunford, according to an official present for the exchange.
They responded that it was difficult to predict a precise timetable, but that it would not take years. As long as the operation lasted months rather than years, Mr. Trump replied, ?I can support that.?
It has been months as requested by Mattis in April.
Okay?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by GreatGuns
quote:Originally posted by drl50
Whether we should be in Syria is one issue. How a draw down should be done is another. This withdrawal announcement was initiated on twitter with no advice on the administrative or logistical requirements or the political ramifications of such a spontaneous declaration. No heads up to allies, government agencies, or the pentagon. What happened to "don't tell the enemy your plans?" The president actually told the enemy his plans before he discussed them with his own forces! Crudely initiated at best. Instant debacle. Worst of all, such a spontaneous announcement leaves the troops and their allies, in a combat zone and unclear about their near-term plan or future. I'm sure Mattis found this to be deplorable, as he understands the commitment to troop welfare and what the ramifications can be to be uninformed in the field, where those that shun such advice, and have no such experience, do not. Throw a bucket of manure at the fan and let everyone scramble to clean it up. Secretary Mattis' departure will be the last adult leaving the room.
Well said. What a mess and I expect it to get much worse, really fast. [V]
Apparently the two of you have not followed the story.
Mattis was given plenty of notice. As SecDef, he for some reason did not use the 8 months to prepare our military and our military allies for the exit.
At some point a subordinate needs to perform.
It looks like Mattis did not perform.
Granted, it is a difficult task. Perhaps he should have stood up in 2003 instead of leading the 1st Marine Division in the into the debacle that created this mess in the first place.
Don, I do understand the story but you are deflecting from the point. Not talking about whether a new SecDef is warranted. Talking about how this debacle was initiated without any coordination with anybody and the consequences it has with our troops and allies. I remember how this was all going to be accomplished because "I will surround myself with brilliant people". Apparently Flynn, McMaster,Bannon, Tillerson, Sessions, Kelly,and now Mattis were not part of that group. If these people should have been replaced, how did we fail so miserably in selecting a cabinet?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by GreatGuns
Okay Don [;)]
OK What?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/world/middleeast/trump-syria-troops.html
Information is your friend.
From the link:
At the meeting, Mr. Trump?s top military advisers told him they had drawn up plans to pull American troops out of Syria immediately. But they also presented a plan for the forces to stay longer to clean out the residual pockets of Islamic State fighters and to train local forces to stabilize the liberated territory so that the group could not regain a foothold.
?How long do you need to do that?? the frustrated president asked Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Joseph F. Dunford, according to an official present for the exchange.
They responded that it was difficult to predict a precise timetable, but that it would not take years. As long as the operation lasted months rather than years, Mr. Trump replied, ?I can support that.?
It has been months as requested by Mattis in April.
Okay?
Well, if you are going to be the one to determine how long it should take, to warrant POTUS' decision, I am sure that will be okay with you.
And if you are going to be the one to determine who and what is a failure, the same applies.
No offense intended, but you have not established that you are any better qualified than Mattis to know and plan military operations in that region.
However, if POTUS is the decider, there has been no justification given for the precipitous and foolish manner in which his decision was reached and announced.
And, of course, I would expect that if things go badly as a result, it will be someone else's fault, as usual.
Let us not forget that the withdrawal from Syria is hardly the only matter in which Mattis identified in his letter of resignation that were his concerns and cause for resignation.
It appears as though Putin wins, again.
Apparently Mattis told Trump that it would be 'months, not years', and Trump signed onto his recommendation.
Apparently Trump is demanding that his subordinates follow through on what they say.
Precipitous and foolish? Hardly.
He campaigned upon it.
He announced discussed in in April with Mattis, accepted and supported his input. One would think that part of Mattis' job was to prepare all involved for the stated withdrawal.
If we have, as you have stated previously, betrayed the Kurds by this withdrawal, why did Mattis not prepare them for this event?
Incompetence?
Hubris?
Laying this all at Trump's feet is ignoring the bigger picture.
Yes, there is more to it than just the Syrian withdrawal, but it is the withdrawal that seems to be the trigger. IMO, any deficit in the area, if one occurs, is more appropriately blamed on Mattis than on the President.0
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