Cops shoot the hostage too
This is in LA.
Link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6012575/LAPD-chief-Officers-kill-hostages-1st-time-13-years.html
C&P
Dramatic bodycam footage shows LAPD cops shooting and killing a homeless man and the woman he had taken hostage by holding a knife to her throat.
Guillermo Perez, 32, is seen in the video facing the officers while holding onto Elizabeth Tollison outside the Central Lutheran Church in the Van Nuys section of Los Angeles on June 16.
Officers confronting the homeless man then opened fire when he started cutting her neck. Cops fired nearly 20 times and killed both Perez and Tollison.
It was the first time in 13 years the LAPD shot and killed an innocent bystander or hostage.
This is where a guy with a rifle that knows how to use it would come in handy, although if you know how to use a shotgun or a hand gun this could have turned out much better.
The training they get is to keep shooting until the perp is down and that just does not work all the time.
It a shame and I am sure the officers involved feel like crap.
Link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6012575/LAPD-chief-Officers-kill-hostages-1st-time-13-years.html
C&P
Dramatic bodycam footage shows LAPD cops shooting and killing a homeless man and the woman he had taken hostage by holding a knife to her throat.
Guillermo Perez, 32, is seen in the video facing the officers while holding onto Elizabeth Tollison outside the Central Lutheran Church in the Van Nuys section of Los Angeles on June 16.
Officers confronting the homeless man then opened fire when he started cutting her neck. Cops fired nearly 20 times and killed both Perez and Tollison.
It was the first time in 13 years the LAPD shot and killed an innocent bystander or hostage.
This is where a guy with a rifle that knows how to use it would come in handy, although if you know how to use a shotgun or a hand gun this could have turned out much better.
The training they get is to keep shooting until the perp is down and that just does not work all the time.
It a shame and I am sure the officers involved feel like crap.
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Sounds like their training plan is faulty. Safety of the hostage is paramount in most cases with the only exception I can think of is the hostage taker having a triggering device for a WMD.
I would have probably fired too in that situation since it was a last resort.
LA needs to get rid of the homeless. Buy them all homes in Granada Hills. [:p]0 -
It's a damn shame. Unfortunately, one of the first things to always keep in mind doing HR is that some one will likely die, be it LEO, suspect or, as in this case, the hostage. (Obviously command gets squirmy when ya lay things out for them.) Though the outcome here may have been different with a long gun, things get VERY dicey, very fast. If the suspect starts harming the hostage(s)you don't have much choice. It's either sit there and watch someone die or do what you can to save them. It sure isn't like TV. (Not sure abut the 20 rounds though...a little extreme.) 0 -
When I trained for HR we were trained to be calm close the distance and shoot the Hostage taker in the T.
I forgot to add with no warning.0 -
Correct on that Sam. Regular patrol officers may get to qualify once a year or so. It's hard enough to get many to even qualify properly on those occasions. (Shilowar can add to this I'm sure.) I've never seen any with the practice/range time/training appropriate for HR on any level. This was just a bad situation all the way around. I'm sure much of the firing was "reflexive" ("...my partner fired so he must have seen something I didn't"). Case in point here...never ends well. They had to act regardless. 0 -
She was enveloped in the perp's arms, and He was slicing Her Throat! They Had To Shoot. A very tough target, dynamic, and imperative that they shoot immediately! Perp gets the blame, IMHO. Sad Situation, but Officers should only resolve to become better shots, not bear any blame. 0 -
This situation reminds me of an act to put someone out of the misery of a more painful death. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HandLoad
She was enveloped in the perp's arms, and He was slicing Her Throat! They Had To Shoot. A very tough target, dynamic, and imperative that they shoot immediately! Perp gets the blame, IMHO. Sad Situation, but Officers should only resolve to become better shots, not bear any blame.
Yes, But they all didn't need to fire.
The one cop with the Body Cam was in a good position to shoot the guy in the T box. The other Officers were to the side and had the hostage between them and the perp, they should have held their fire until they had a clean shot.
Just my opinion.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HandLoad
She was enveloped in the perp's arms, and He was slicing Her Throat! They Had To Shoot. A very tough target, dynamic, and imperative that they shoot immediately! Perp gets the blame, IMHO. Sad Situation, but Officers should only resolve to become better shots, not bear any blame.
The only trouble is that the cops created the situation. That is were training would have helped.
But hey, they reduced the problematic homeless situation. I'm sure it was just over a parking spot or doorway to sleep in.0 -
They fired enough rounds to make sure nobody survived. 0 -
It's not something anyone expects, especially a patrol officer to face off with a guy slicing someones throat. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...they didn't have the benefit of watching the video before hand, or knowing that was going to happen. If they weren't yoked with having to try less lethal bean bags first they could have shot him, ended it long before he got near the hostage. Fifteen years ago this might have ended before it got started. Not a fan of the multiple officer shooting, instead of one or two being designated to shoot that had the angle, but as I said they didn't have time to be that prepared. Like Sam said a patrol rifle would have been far more accurate in this situation, something to learn from. On weapon calls my rifle comes out everytime. The hostage was likely dead anyways. 0 -
What about moving closer before he gets to the woman? I mean they are back a ways. Seems like a logical thing to do for a better shot if needed. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper
What about moving closer before he gets to the woman? I mean they are back a ways. Seems like a logical thing to do for a better shot if needed.
Because they are not trained to close distance on someone with an edged weapon and they didn't have the benefit of advanced knowledge that he'd take he was going to attack her. They are reacting to him, and action is slower than his action. you've had the benefit of analyzing the video rather than being in the moment.0 -
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper
What about moving closer before he gets to the woman? I mean they are back a ways. Seems like a logical thing to do for a better shot if needed.
Because they are not trained to close distance on someone with an edged weapon and they didn't have the benefit of advanced knowledge that he'd take he was going to attack her. They are reacting to him, and action is slower than his action. you've had the benefit of analyzing the video rather than being in the moment.
The cop is supposed to be in command of the situation, not reacting and making it worse. They came racing up to the scene looking for a kill, well, this was a bad shoot. It makes no difference if the players were vagrants.
And the guy is shot dead laying on the ground and the moron cop is still telling him to drop the knife. LOL.
That is going to cost them lots of money.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mag00
That is going to cost them lots of money.
That'll depend on the autopsy, and whether the neck wound is determined to have been fatal. It's LA they'll just cut a check, ti's a not big thing for them. They are spending borrowed money they aren't likely to be worried about it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
This is in LA.
Link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6012575/LAPD-chief-Officers-kill-hostages-1st-time-13-years.html
C&P
Dramatic bodycam footage shows LAPD cops shooting and killing a homeless man and the woman he had taken hostage by holding a knife to her throat.
Guillermo Perez, 32, is seen in the video facing the officers while holding onto Elizabeth Tollison outside the Central Lutheran Church in the Van Nuys section of Los Angeles on June 16.
Officers confronting the homeless man then opened fire when he started cutting her neck. Cops fired nearly 20 times and killed both Perez and Tollison.
It was the first time in 13 years the LAPD shot and killed an innocent bystander or hostage.
This is where a guy with a rifle that knows how to use it would come in handy, although if you know how to use a shotgun or a hand gun this could have turned out much better.
The training they get is to keep shooting until the perp is down and that just does not work all the time.
It a shame and I am sure the officers involved feel like crap.
Not quite...?. LAPD killed an innocent bystander a week before this shooting. She was an employee at a Trader Joe's store.0
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