Skip to main content
Help Center Community Shop

Comments

19 comments

Date Votes
  • SCOUT5
    Interesting, thanks.
    0
  • Sam06
    Not 03A3 those are Model 1903 Rifles(The ones with the rear sights mounted on the barrel)
    0
  • navc130
    Very interesting and informative paper, but, it is important to differentiate between the early Model 1903 Springfield and the Model 1903A3 which was manufactured starting in 1941. Your post should be corrected to read 1903.
    0
  • mrmike08075
    I would add that many gunsmith and shooters avoided these "poorly heat treated" guns - still avoid them

    But one of the primary reasons that this practice continued and is still considered canon is failed to be mentioned in this article

    Many Springfield's were - still are converted into custom spotters often with wildcat or high pressure proprietary cartridge designs

    And it's still considered a risk to utilize these guns / receivers as a build platform for sporterized conversion guns

    There are collectors who seek out examples in the published serial number range as display pieces or reference works examples (but not as shooters)

    I have handled two examples owned by collectors - never heard of chrome plated drill rifle variants

    I have the reference books cited in the article

    I have never heard of concerns about poor or defective ammo - never had that lore related or passed on

    I have fired quite a bit of the ammo noted in this treastie through a number of rifles including a Springfield spotter and multiple garands and a rem 721 and never had an issue

    Can anyone comment or opine about the ammo angle???

    Mike
    0
  • Mobuck
    "I have handled two examples owned by collectors - never heard of chrome plated drill rifle variants"

    When I was the unit's S4, all of our drill team rifles were low number O3's both beater practice rifles and chrome plated "show rifles". All were blank fire only.
    0
  • chiefr
    If any of you are fortunate enough to have Hatchers book, there are many pages and minute details on these rifles.
    0
  • bpost
    I owned and shot the living snot out of a low numbered RI 1903. I used IMI ball ammo from the 1960's and handloads with 46 gr. IMR 4895 and 17gr. Government boattail Match bullets. It never gave me a lick of problems.

    YMMV.
    0
  • Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by mrmike08075

    There are collectors who seek out examples in the published serial number range as display pieces or reference works examples (but not as shooters)
    I have a 777,000 range Springfield.
    0
  • mrmike08075
    Labeled as non firing drill rifles???

    Devilled or welded - blocked so as not to fire live ammo???

    We used to volunteer at the local vfw and afl posts and cleaned / serviced their firearms - "drill rifles" - parade rifles - blank firing pieces

    The guns were in awful - shameful condition...

    They had fired ancient blanks and they must have been corrosive as hell because the bores and chambers had rotted and rusted out

    They had not been cleaned or oiled or wiped down in decades

    We ended up getting lucky as the dcm / cmp did an exchange program and took back the neglected and destroyed guns and replaced them with serviceable pieces

    I don't recall the details of manufacturer and ser# as I was like 12 years old at the time

    Do they still provide funeral salute parties with blanks and a bugler anymore???

    I suppose taking questionable pieces and designating / converting them for blank fire only drill and parade use was the best option

    Mike
    0
  • mrmike08075
    I am ashamed to admit that I have 3 copies of hatchers notebook...

    Mike
    0
  • MIKE WISKEY
    I was a 45b20 (small arms repairman) I did see a reference that stated 'most' of the damaged rifle had come apart using USSC ammo from ww1. Now I don't currently have a 'low' number 1903, but if I did I would shoot it using recent m-2 ball (post ww2).
    0
  • 11b6r
    The CMP has a concise version of the same info on their website. For all that feel there is no truth to the cautions, because THEIR rifle is fine- not ALL rifles got a bad heat treat- depended on the weather that day. As Dirty Harry said "You gotta ask- Do you feel lucky? Well..... do ya?"

    If someone handed me a bowl of 1,000 jelly beans, and told me that ONE of the jelly beans was poison- I damn sure am not going to be eating jelly beans outa THAT bowl.

    The CMP also has info on the bolts for the 1903- swept back versus straight handle. Worth reading.
    0
  • mrmike08075
    I have always wondered if the original .30 cal US govt. round and the ".30-03" and the .30-06 had any dimensional or pressure difference or whether it was simply a nomenclature issue...

    Anybody have a rod bayonet variant or a pederson device slotted model???

    Been a long time since I have seen or handled either type

    I did get to fire 10 rounds from an intact pederson device cut rifle with an original magazine

    I am guessing that a sealed original box of ammo for it brings quite a premium at this point - but the experience was totally worth it

    Also tested an early sniper variant - with a Warner swazey sighting device

    Also would love to see the rumored light house service or coast guard marked models - never encountered either one

    And I am certain one of you can tell the tale of or post the link to the Mauser patent infringement lawsuit settlement

    And then there is the so called air service model or variants with high cap box mags or cartridge catchers

    And the trench warfare raised mount - almost crew served device to allow you to fire and sight the gun from beneath and behind it without exposing yourself

    This is why I love you guys - many of you get it and are in the know

    Mike
    0
  • 11b6r
    I have one round of 30-03 in my cartridge collection. It is just a skosh longer in the neck, and uses a round nosed bullet. Pressure- I dunno. There WERE changes in the load of the standard 30-06, which is how you got the M2 Ball load.
    0
  • mrmike08075
    Yeah - I dug through some of my stuff and found an empty box marked .30-03 wcf - I think made for the 1895 win lever action rifle and I can confirm your observations

    I have not fired a win model 1895 lever gun in .30 cal

    I do have a Russian military contract variant in 7.62x54R

    Thanks for the input - I await more contributions from the rest of our experts

    Mike
    0
  • Okie743
    receiver not heat treated properly.

    I've heard rumors that some of the Mauser 98 rifle had weak receivers due to not being heat treated properly and the lug slots in the receiver would wear causing excessive headspace on the weaker receivers.

    ???
    0
  • 11b6r
    Mike- google 30-03 Wikipedia. Good brief article on the round, dimensions, loading.

    BTW, I have 6 rounds of .30 Pedersen ammo that I was gifted for my collection. That is also darned hard to find!
    0
  • 4205raymond
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    I owned and shot the living snot out of a low numbered RI 1903. I used IMI ball ammo from the 1960's and handloads with 46 gr. IMR 4895 and 17gr. Government boattail Match bullets. It never gave me a lick of problems.

    YMMV.
    +100, BPOST must agree with you here.

    I have a 1918 with swept back bolt built by Paul Jaeger of Jenkingtown, Pa. for a 1929 USMA Grad. It was stocked by his stock maker Fritz Voight in 1949. I have been shooting mostly military ammo and a lot of 150Gr PSP Remington in it. I don't shoot 180's in it. It is a real tack driver.

    Years ago I communicated with Doctor Lyon about this article after I started an exhaustive months long search for info on low number(800,000) Springfields. At that time Doctor Lyon was chief of oncology at University of Utah. He told me that he regretted not reading a book I have before writing his article. The book is "THE BOOK OF THE SPRINGFIELD-E.C.CROSSMAN,copyright,1951, by Thomas G. Samworth.The book is mint and probably one of my most prized possessions.

    It would take a week sitting at this key board to do this topic justice. There has been a lot Of CYA going on for decades.Kind of reminds me of the 700 trigger and the policitans on gun laws "If it will save one life take them away."This debate has gone on for a very long time and it will go on to the end of time.

    My advice is if you must shoot them, use the ammo that was made for them. No, I would not reach for a poison jelly bean in the jar but I will reach for my Springfield and if it kills me instead of injuring me I will die with a smile on my face.

    There are those who would have you believe the receivers will shatter in a thousand pieces it you should drop the rifle on some concrete. This topic is personal for me. After long and careful consideration for many, many, years I have deceided that the NRA,DCM and General Hatcher are not GOD.---- NRA ENDOWMENT, NYSRPA,LIFE MEMBER MONROE CHESTER GUN CLUB AND NATIVE SON OF VIRGINIA.
    0
  • mrmike08075
    +1 on respect for Paul J from jenkintown PA

    My father has a 6.5 arisaka Japanese imperial army carbine converted to a custom .308 spotter

    Paul and his staff thought that hatcher and ackley and Hayes were right about the arisaka receivers being indestructible and stronger made that Springfield or Mauser with better steel

    Mike
    0

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Recent Activity