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Thanksgiving day gun project

mrmike08075
I decided this morning to fully disassemble my Walther toggle lock semi automatic shotgun...

I managed to get a parts diagram from a Walther collectors forum so I can verify that I have all the correct parts in what I hope will be all the right places

The gun is in pretty good shape - some field usage and storage marks

The guy I bought it from ran a box or two of his "special" hand loads through it (mixed brand hulls - paper and plastic - assorted brass heights - shot sizes - and mixed together left over powders)

He said the gun was recoiling heavy and just froze up - heavy carbon deposits and lots of powder fouling combined with what I assume is the wrong lubrication or no lubrication

The Walther cognoscenti and the out of date ephemera I have received / gathered indicates that the action was very sensitive to load variations and had to be kept clean and correctly lubricated in order to function as designed

The carbon and dirt and fouling and burnt up caked on lube was the worst I have ever seen - I mean air chisel and blow torch bad...

The tolerances seem to be very fine - and there seems to be 2 or 3 parts in place were one would suffice just fine - it's like a Swiss watch inside

I have a little ultrasonic cleaner and a little auto shop style fluid in tank cleaner and a small vibrating tumbler with walnut shell media and of course blue wonder and hoppes and break free and such...

Intricate interesting action design - anybody seem one or take one apart???

Mike
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Comments

16 comments

Date Votes
  • 0rangeD
    I have one, never taken it apart but I've seen instructions somewhere.
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  • 0rangeD
    There's an article titled the Walther autoshotgun by Rodger Marsh in the March 1945 issue of American Rifleman.Here are the instructions that it has.


    To take the weapon apart, the first step is to press the spring latch on the left side of the receiver, which allows the forend to drop down at the rear. On the right side of the metal block thus exposed is a spring hook which, when pressed in, allows the forend to be disengaged from the receiver it may then be slid forward off the barrel. In the space left vacant by the removal of the forend, there is a bolt set transversely through the receiver. Locate this crossbolt and remove it. Then transfer your attention to the right side of the barrel extension (the barrel extension is so-called to distinguish it from the non recoiling receiver) then you will see a crank handle, which must be rotated downward and to the rear. This opens the breach which is held open automatically. Leaving the breach locked open Force back on the barrel and, at the same time, push down on the front end of the catch which you will find in the upper stock Tang. This action walks back the plunger of the toggle spring, thus removing spring pressure from the toggle joint. Push out the previously noted crossbolt (to the right) And slide barrel and Barrel extension forward about half an inch after which they may be lifted off. The parts just removed were the recoiling group, a natural part of which is the breech block to remove the breech block and taco joint, it is necessary to take out the crank, whose shaft forms the connection between the barrel extension and the rear link of the toggle joint. This is done by turning the crank handle about 30 degrees above its normal horizontal position and then pulling it out. After this the toggle may be flexed by hand and the block lift it out, front end first. Removal of the barrel may be done at this time, provided only that the breech block is partly retracted so that the extractor and ejector are clear of the recesses in the barrel. A small screw beside the barrel, its head engaged with a cut in the ring of the barrel must be turned so that the Cutaway portion of its head registers with the ring. The barrel May then be unscrewed quite easily.
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  • 0rangeD
    Continuing from there.

    This is just about the limit of field stripping. To remove any more parts, it is necessary to take off the butt plate, remove the stock Bolt, and slip off the stock, after removing the lower Tang screw. Once the stock is removed, the housing for the Springs are visible. The upper tube contains the lighter toggle spring, while the lower tube serves both to hold the heavy barrel return spring assembly and to connect the short stock bolt to the receiver. The lower tube is connected to the receiver by a T-lug and may be removed after turning it about 90 degrees. This permits removal of the trigger guard which brings with it the disconnector and carrier mechanism. Two parts which should be noted are the cam plate, writing in a slot on the right receiver wall and the barrel return spring connector, a forked bar which not only connects the barrel return spring to the barrel extension but also operates the toggle catch, a vertical swinging bar in the rear of the right receiver wall.
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  • grumpygy
    Will be working on a couple of H&R pistols that seem to be missing a few parts. Think I have all the parts ordered for one.


    But one of the parts is a spring and ball. I have them and they are so small I have trouble just seeing them in the little zip lock bag they came in. They are going to be fun.
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  • mrmike08075
    I took it down completely - as far is it would go...

    I have never seen such a concretion of carbon and powder residue and dirt... it's like someone body mixed sand and jb weld into the action...

    I would call it browning level quality but more complicated

    It's going to be a long process to get everything clean

    And the gun has a period correct Sears and roebuck poly choke installed on it - and an ace trigger shoe

    Can't wait to see it run the right way

    Mike
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  • 0rangeD
    Do you have ammo? If not I can suggest some that should work.
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  • mrmike08075
    I have a supply of Canadian old dominion paper hull ammo that is purported to be designed specifically for this gun (4 boxes - a total of 80 loaded and 20 once fired / all #7 1/2 shot light trap loads)

    I also had (in the gunshop days) 100 rounds custom handloaded - on vintage factory new unfired savage Indian head logo paper hulls made up when I bought the gun

    2 boxes of light trap loads - one box of single aught buck mixed with #7 1/2 shot - and one box of #5 shot

    Checked on some of the parts taking a chemical bath and they are coming out clean and look good - will dry some off and place in the ultrasonic cleaner or the case tumbler next

    After scouring with an oversized copper brush on a steel rod a soaked the inside of the bbl with blue wonder - just ran about 20 tight patches through it and they are coming up clean and the chamber also looks perfect

    I am curious about how many of these side toggle lock action semi automatic commercial shotguns were made - over what time period - how many were imported into the US - etc...

    Seems a bit overly complicated from a design standpoint but also appears robust and well made

    I will continue to provide status updates

    Any and all feedback would be welcomed

    Mike
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  • mrmike08075
    Random canon and lore...

    Production run total estimated in the 5000-6000 unit range depending on them starting with 0001 or with 1000 (there is some debate about this)

    95% appear to be 12 gauge with the remainder in 16 gauge

    Treaty of Versailles period commercial export arms

    While designed and patented by Walther early guns were made by DW (of ortgies pistol fame) Walther later took back control of production as DW was turning out some sub par guns

    Short recoil side Mount toggle lock action

    Mine is ser# 49XX

    designed for 65mm 2 1/2" shells (63.5 will work - 67 may work but not cycle - 70mm US is not recommended)

    Toggle lever brings the bolt back - fore end contains tube magazine which breaks open / down just forward of the receiver to allow loading (4+1 capacity) (supposed to be a drum magazine but I have never seen one)

    Germany export proofs on trigger guard

    My gun has the left side receiver reinforcing rib and has the improvements made to correct the DW deficiencies

    I believe that all guns left the factory with 0.8mm full chokes

    DW AG Erfurt was about 40 miles down the road from Zella Mehlis

    Toggle joint connected to bolt

    Serrated horn buttplate - full length raised vent rib (most did not have one)

    Automatische schrotflinten deutschen fabrikates

    Made in the former royal rifle factory

    27 1/2" long bbl (not including the giant polychoke)

    Hiram maxim patented a toggle lock semi auto shotgun in 1886 - browning patented a short toggle action as well (I have never seen or heard about either gun)

    Per the Geco 1927 catalog of arms my gun is an improved model la with vent rib and hand selected walnut furniture with reinforcing rib on the left side of the receiver with diamond pattern polished chamber to facilitate positive thoughts extraction

    And yes - despite the dire warnings I took the toggle action completely apart

    Hope these notes prove of interest to somebody - it's a work in progress that I should have taken care of 15 years ago

    Actual finished auction prices on these in decent working original condition seem absurdly high to me for an evolutionary design dead end / oddity that rarity alone does not seem to account for

    Again please feel free to poke me with a stick - to poke holes in my arguments - to add to the threads content in any positive manner

    Mike
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  • 0rangeD
    Like a lot of more obscure guns prices seem to very a lot I have seen some worse examples sell for a lot more than the one I bought. I can confirm that 67 mm shells won't cycle. I tried some that I had and they are too long to eject.
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  • mrmike08075
    Well once I acquired a Walther semiautomatic pistol that was set up to eject spent cases to the left - following up with a toggle lock action seemed like the next logical progression - now if I could just aquire a WA-3000

    Mike
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  • mrmike08075
    So I emptied out the parts washer and rotary vibration tumbler - cleaned out all the walnut shell media and ran dry patches till they came out clean and dry...

    Used a silicon cloth to wipe down all surfaces.

    Laid down some traces of hoppes#9 and some break free and some rem oil and some and some white lithium grease - even opened up one those beloved 2 piece yellow grease pots...

    Tooth brushes and dental picks and copper / bronze bore brushed and one snake

    I have every part shown in the diagrams and they all appear to match the parts in visual and dimensional frames of reference. miss

    The toggle action goes together pretty easily - though you have to hold the receiver upside down and sideways at different points

    The crossbolt safety requires a bit of mojo -
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  • mrmike08075
    It's all back together - even the screws that hold the plain serrated buffalo horn buttplate and the ace trigger shoe...

    Apparently it's lubricated in all the right places and using a modified azoom action proving dummy everything cycles correctly from loading to extraction

    I will fire some proving / test for function loads tonight - do a basic field strip to looks things over if all goes well

    Mike
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  • mrmike08075
    Test fired the Walther side toggle lock action semiautomatic shotgun this morning and have a few observations...

    Recoil is sharp and pronounced like firing a bolt action rifle in .30-06

    The design and drop and cant and LOP of the stock relative to the action and were the forces impinge plays a major role...

    The buffalo horn serrated but plate is no help in abating felt recoil - an absorbent pad or decelerator would be helpful - but you would need to cut down the stock as length of pull is already 14 /2"

    A proper pad and a muzzle break would probably be very helpful and make the gun more user friendly - if you could leave the original stock intact and fit a replacement to modify and experiment with without altering the original components or harming the collectable value or originality that would seem an acceptable middle ground

    The gun now cycles flawlessly with no problems of any sort - and it's the fastest shotgun action I have ever fired - cyclic rate is amazing (wish I had one of the impossible to find drum magazines)

    The action cycle feels and sounds differently that any other shotgun I have fired

    I put 12 rounds of correct length #7 1/2" birdshot trap loads through it and 6 rounds of correct length single aught buck followed by 4 correct length pumpkin ball slug equiv loads

    Extraction is positive but it does not throw the empty hulls very far - I used unfixed paper hull savage Indian head logo shells to build the ammo - I am thinking about altering some herters semi translucent blue Wanda's in the next batch - I think a round or two of trap would be a proper test

    I am not completely certain how to correctly adjust the poly choke to the effect pattern tightness

    I like the gun - it's browning or better quality - and an odd duck

    Your thoughts on the matter are solicited and welcomed.

    Mike
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  • mlincoln
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUAQVmuYPZ0

    very cool
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  • mrmike08075
    Thanks - I like Ian - back in the day he helped me place handguns from the perfidio of Mexico / president for sale at ria


    I had not seem that video before - it's well done and closely follows my own experiences...

    Thanks for posting - I did not think anyone was reading or interested in this thread...

    Mike
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  • mrmike08075
    Have not found much about the actual drum or twin drum magazine adaptation of the design - a few pictures and it shows up is a few fps video games with the drum installed...

    I have a lot of digging and reading to do - got a bunch of guns I just don't know much about - need to rectify that.

    Mike
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