Tire question..
Daughter in law lives in PA and needs a tire replaced. Dealer says that Firestone stopped making that model. Says that since it's an all wheel drive vehicle, she should replace all 4 rather than having a non matching replacement. Says that the car won't drive properly.
I'm completely non auto mechanically inclined. Are we being BS'd?
I'm completely non auto mechanically inclined. Are we being BS'd?
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From what I know that is correct. 0 -
Firestone has been pulling that crap for too many years! (at least 50) 0 -
The very worst tires I have ever had were Firestones. They were on vehicles that I purchased or leased new. I have never intentionally bought Firestones, nor will I ever. [:(!][:(!][:(!] 0 -
Go somewhere else and buy a tire, preferably a Michelin. Just have them put it on the back. 0 -
Yes, most places will only put 4 tires on an AWD vehicle. If the tires were real close to new, one could MAYBE get away with a pair. Don't replace just one tire at any rate. If she gets somebody to just put on a pair, everybody better know what they are looking at, or they will damage that car to the point that 4 whole sets of tires would seem cheap. 0 -
It's more than non-matching brands. In an AWD it's very important that all 4 tires are very close to the same diameter. Otherwise you will damage the transfer case. I'm helping a pal change one on his son's Lincoln Aviator this week. The boy had terrible mismatched tires on it. 0 -
Thank you for all the info ? we?re buying a set of four tires now 0 -
I would absolutely spend the money and buy Michelin. You won?t regret it and the long run they may last longer so cost less. 0 -
If it has a transfer case it is 4WD. AWD & 4WD get used interchangeably, but they really aren't exactly the same. Anyway, Firestones are one of my favorites but the dealers can be very good at getting extra money out of you. 0 -
If the 3 remaining tires have alot of tread left you might consider buying a new tire and having it "shaved" down to match the other 3. My son had this done. 0 -
Firestone makes good tires P LT and TBR. We sell several thousand of them every year. The dealer is correct if the diameter does not match it can mess with the cars drive line. It is best to replace all four and be done with it. Michelin's are great tires but even they have had massive recalls.
Ya pays your money and takes yer chances.0 -
You can get used tires on ebay, maybe even the make and model of the one you damaged. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
It's more than non-matching brands. In an AWD it's very important that all 4 tires are very close to the same diameter. Otherwise you will damage the transfer case. I'm helping a pal change one on his son's Lincoln Aviator this week. The boy had terrible mismatched tires on it.
This... and even if the tread is half wore out on the old tires and she puts a new tire on, that Little difference can screw up her transfer case or differential because some tires will be going faster rpms than others causing excessive wear/friction in your differential or transfer case.
But keep in mind, that you can have a tire shaved down to match the other ones. But that's still an extra cost....0 -
quote:Originally posted by Heavy Chevy
Firestone has been pulling that crap for too many years! (at least 50)
All tire makers do. The molds wear out and new designs replace the old ones every two to three years, it is progress. Rubber compounds improve, tread patterns evolve and life goes on.
We did not leave the stone age because we ran out of stones.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Heavy Chevy
Firestone has been pulling that crap for too many years! (at least 50)
I had that same problem with Firestone back in the early 70s. They quit making the Firestone Wide Oval and I had a new '73 Trans Am that came with them. I needed to replace one of the tires about a year later and they quit making the Wide Oval. Pissed me off.
I've also been buying Michelin's Primacy radial tires for years and earlier this year I needed to replace one due to a nail near the sidewall on one and they quit making the Primacy. The Primacy were great tires and the Defender I replaced them with is not nearly as good a tire as the Primacy. They're louder and heat sensitive. They ride better when it's really hot. They remind me of the old nylon tires only not as bad like the Firestone Wide Ovals that would get flat spots when they were parked for a little while especially in cold weather. You'd have to drive a couple of miles before they smoothed out.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
We did not leave the stone age because we ran out of stones.
Nice [:D]0 -
This requirement to swap all 4 tires is mostly CYA tempered by the "brand specific" sizing carried over from "the old days". There was a time when same size tires from different brand names WEREN'T THE SAME SIZE. I feel that this situation has been resolved for the most part and "most" domestic branded(not necessarily produced) tires have similar dimensions. What hasn't been standardized is stiffness, rolling resistance, and sidewall strength.
The "high tech" drive trains in current vehicles is so "tech-i-fied" that an odd sized tire may cause internal failures and/or catastrophic loss of control. I don't (and WON'T) own a vehicle with such a system based on first hand reports of things like brake failure as the system attempts to equalize wheel speed and such things.
FWIW, I'm no fan of Michelin after a series of carcass failures in that brand that hasn't occurred with any other brand. Last month I bought the first new tires of this century and only because the size/load rating I desired was not available in "re-man" tires. Those tires are Coopers as that brand has consistently proved superior to others.0 -
I put two different tires on the front of my Jeep and it literally would not even move if it was in 4 wheel drive. The binding was so bad due to the different sized tires it would only roll in 2 when drive. This make perfect sense if you think about how gears drivelines and the transfer case interact.
If you have a 4 wheel drive and put different size tires on you will break something expensive.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by Heavy Chevy
Firestone has been pulling that crap for too many years! (at least 50)
All tire makers do. The molds wear out and new designs replace the old ones every two to three years, it is progress. Rubber compounds improve, tread patterns evolve and life goes on.
We did not leave the stone age because we ran out of stones.
[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
It's more than non-matching brands. In an AWD it's very important that all 4 tires are very close to the same diameter. Otherwise you will damage the transfer case. I'm helping a pal change one on his son's Lincoln Aviator this week. The boy had terrible mismatched tires on it.
How close do they have to be?0 -
quote:Originally posted by flyingcolumn
How close do they have to be?
Better get a stagger stick......0 -
quote:Originally posted by flyingcolumn
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
It's more than non-matching brands. In an AWD it's very important that all 4 tires are very close to the same diameter. Otherwise you will damage the transfer case. I'm helping a pal change one on his son's Lincoln Aviator this week. The boy had terrible mismatched tires on it.
How close do they have to be?
Pretty close. With modern SUVs if you mix a brand new tire with a half wore out Tire of the same brand and type, that's too far
On the other hand, if you have the same brand and type of tire it's brand new that you want to mix with older tires, they can shave down some of the tread to match the same diameter. But then that'll cost you a few bucks to do.
Just remember, a new set of tires it's a lot cheaper then a new transfer case/transmission0 -
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by flyingcolumn
How close do they have to be?
Better get a stagger stick......
Is that like a cane?0 -
quote:Originally posted by flyingcolumn
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by flyingcolumn
How close do they have to be?
Better get a stagger stick......
Is that like a cane?
Yeah yeah, it's a cane for a drunken damn mick.0 -
"If you have a 4 wheel drive and put different size tires on you will break something expensive"
Not entirely correct. If that 4wd is an older model with "normal" transfer case mode and "open" differentials, mixing tire size(within reason) won't damage anything as long as you don't drive on pavement in 4wd.
If your 4wd is one of the "puss!mobiles" with a dial and icons like snowflakes, sand dunes, and mountain peaks(wishful thinking at best), that's a different story. Any "awd" that has an "auto 4wd mode" or "traction control features" probably should have nearly same diameter tires.0 -
I gotta say that I think the whole goal behind this 'theme' is - Sell more tires, Make more money! If you have to take advantage of consumers lack of knowledge - so be it, it's called 'Sales'.
Much like the good old 3,000 mile oil change.
Oh, sure if you are one who drives much on dry pavement with all wheels pulling and with different sized tires - you may have a problem at some point - or not.
I've had at least one 4WD for the last 30 years or so and I'm sure I've broken this 'theme' many times. But, I doubt that I've had 4WD engaged in these trucks/SUVS for even 1/2 % of their lives and when I did, it was in (wait for it.....) slippery conditions! I'm very confident, that if the transfer case isn't engaged, you're not going to hurt it because of different sized tires. And if transfer case is engaged and traction is bad (kinda like when you use 4WD) you're not going to have a problem due to mismatched tires.
I'll have to admit that I'm kind of a tire geek. For some unknown reason, I notice tires as much or more than the vehicle they are on. And it sure seems like a large percentage of 4wd/AWD vehicles have tires that don't match.
Are all these people really looking at big mechanical failures because of this? I really can't believe they are.
There are lots of variables on something like this. I'm sure most of us have had 1 of 4 new tires that just wears out faster than the rest. It's going to happen. AWD/4WD systems can't handle this?
Who rotates their tires anymore? Fronts & backs don't wear the same.
Then there is over or under pressure tires - Tire Diameter changes because of this.
How about if you live somewhere with lots of left hand turns? The outside tires are going a further distance, right?
Anyway, many years ago I put new tires on my 1st 4WD - at a Firestone dealer. I got the free tire rotation - only it wasn't designed to be free. Every tire rotation, they'd find something wrong with my truck - something I needed to spend money on in their shop. I'd get a 2nd opinion from a trusted mechanic and the answer would always be - 'well it wouldn't hurt anything, but it isn't really needed'.
I've found many reasons to distrust anybody who might be working in sales, but that was one of the early events.
And I've never had an AWD. If it doesn't have a transfer case and 4 wheel low, I'm not too interested.
And AWD may be somewhat different. I imagine these systems 'choose' when to engage AWD - but I imagine it would be in low traction conditions - not dry pavement.0 -
quote:Originally posted by KX500
And AWD may be somewhat different. I imagine these systems 'choose' when to engage AWD - but I imagine it would be in low traction conditions - not dry pavement.
A lot, maybe most, of the new systems have borrowed their technology from the old Borge Warner 1305/1339 Quadratrac transfer case design. If they're close enough in theory then they are engaged Full Time like the old BW and as little as a 1/16" difference in tire diameter can damage the clutch cones and friction discs in the BW differential. And yes, tire rotation is essential with this type T case.0 -
quote:Originally posted by KX500
And AWD may be somewhat different. I imagine these systems 'choose' when to engage AWD - but I imagine it would be in low traction conditions - not dry pavement.
They are engaged ALL the time. They have a fore/aft differential as well as cross differentials. Differentials are not made for constant use. They are made to "take up" differences in travel distances of tires, like going around a corner. If you mismatch tire diameters the differential works constantly. you will wear it out, and it will fail. Ever open up a drive axle that has had frequent/excessive wheel spinning? The spider cross shaft is usually thrashed, and many times it ruins the carrier also.
To quote bpost: "We didn't leave the stone age because we ran out of stones".
Stuff like I, and apparently you like, such as manual hub lever shifted 4X4s is dodo bird technology. Nobody wants that crap anymore, except a few of us old guys.0 -
If they are all the same tire size, I don't really see a problem.
I drove the Chevy a long time with four different tire makers and similar tire tread.
I finally replaced them one at time over the course of a year and I finally had all the same maker and tire. Car broke down six months later and it is now parked.[:(!]0 -
quote:Originally posted by ROY222
If they are all the same tire size, I don't really see a problem.
Because there's a difference between the actual diameter between manufacturers. Just because a tire shows 31-10.50 15 doesn't mean a thing when you mix brands/models. There can be as a 1/4", or more, difference between say Bridgestone and BF Goodrich tires. Same goes for model tire by the same manufacturer.0
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