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2 - America?s C*vil W*r: Missouri and Kansas

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10 comments

  • mark christian
    When Missouri or Kansas come to mind, people imagine two quiet states in middle America. But there was a time when the butchery in Kansas and Missouri rivaled anything seen in Biafra, Bosnia or Syria. It was savage, and no quarter was given by either side.
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  • kimi
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    When Missouri or Kansas come to mind, people imagine two quiet states in middle America. But there was a time when the butchery in Kansas and Missouri rivaled anything seen in Biafra, Bosnia or Syria. It was savage, and no quarter was given by either side.


    So true. Great parallel, Mark. Thank you.
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  • Brookwood
    Hero's to some, criminals to many, our bloody history can only be studied when the true facts are not mislaid or covered up by political interests that have misleading agenda's! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantrill's_Raiders
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  • kimi
    quote:Originally posted by Brookwood
    Hero's to some, criminals to many, our bloody history can only be studied when the true facts are not mislaid or covered up by political interests that have misleading agenda's! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantrill's_Raiders


    So right you are, too! As a matter of fact I was just about to post an article about Quantrill...I lost the blame link, but I hope to find it today are tomorrow. His story needs to be told...beginning when he and some other confederate soldiers were encouraged to leave the regular army and go home to Missouri to defend their people and property. He did just that, after the union army had made a name for themselves regarding total war and their treatment of southern people. He began with about fifteen guerilla recruits, and by the time these men set out to raid Lawrence to avenge the murderous atrocities that had been leveled against their family members and neighbors by Missouri border ruffians, red-legs, and the union army, he had around 400 guerillas. You are right, the story cannot be told without discussing Quantrill. Thank you.
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  • Brookwood
    kimi, I have been a student of our American history most of my life and have always tried to see beyond what I was taught in school.

    Before the war of what is sadly hard to spell out online, you may take a gander at the life and times of John Brown. His body is now way past mouldering in the grave!
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  • kimi
    quote:Originally posted by Brookwood
    kimi, I have been a student of our American history most of my life and have always tried to see beyond what I was taught in school.

    Before the war of what is sadly hard to spell out online, you may take a gander at the life and times of John Brown. His body is now way past mouldering in the grave!


    I have studied about John Brown considerably, and plan to post information about him. I think that folks like you and I can find some common ground on the subjects being discussed. I think we have the good sense to understand why some of these figures are heroes to both sides, and will be forever. That said, these same people will always be villains of the worst sort imaginable to some. Some things never change.


    There was a time when our country tried to heal itself, but the past 60 years has been similar to the era that led up to the subject war.
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  • Brookwood
    kimi, my biggest question regarding our post Civ War history lies within what I have been told time and time again.

    That President Lincoln had plans to rebuild the south without malice and no revenge for all of the perceived hateful war crimes supposedly committed. Lincoln, as I was taught was truly going to do everything within his power to reunite our nation into a country that would stand united.

    With his assassination, we ended up with carpetbaggers, revenge filled politicians, and a host of angry citizen's who wanted to extract any and everything they could steal from the southern states.

    The true reality is that what we today end up with is a people that still hold great hostility, even after more than 150 years gone by.
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  • kimi
    quote:Originally posted by Brookwood
    kimi, my biggest question regarding our post Civ War history lies within what I have been told time and time again.

    That President Lincoln had plans to rebuild the south without malice and no revenge for all of the perceived hateful war crimes supposedly committed. Lincoln, as I was taught was truly going to do everything within his power to reunite our nation into a country that would stand united.

    With his assassination, we ended up with carpetbaggers, revenge filled politicians, and a host of angry citizen's who wanted to extract any and everything they could steal from the southern states.

    The true reality is that what we today end up with is a people that still hold great hostility, even after more than 150 years gone by.


    I understand what you have been taught, very similar to the same things I have heard as well. That could have been his intentions, but the more historical evidence that modern-day historians uncover, the worse it looks for the Lincoln cult and those who preach their distortion of history ala Billy O'Reilly style. If you get the chance, please buy the book by Thomas Fleming and read it. I'd very much like to hear your opinion about it. I'm think of buying Cisco's book as well. Thought I'd order it today, but I procrastinate a lot nowadays. [:)]
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  • wundudnee
    Good read kimi. There's a lot of history between Topeka, Lecompton and Lawrence. and there is still a lot of retained friction. Lecompton was the slave capital of Kansas at the time and was over three miles long on the Kansas river. There was a lot going on during that time.
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  • kimi
    quote:Originally posted by wundudnee
    Good read kimi. There's a lot of history between Topeka, Lecompton and Lawrence. and there is still a lot of retained friction. Lecompton was the slave capital of Kansas at the time and was over three miles long on the Kansas river. There was a lot going on during that time.


    Thanks for the input, old friend. There is no doubt in my mind that the Border War was the beginning of the C*vil W*ar...and can be accurately described as a c*ivil w*r. Of course, the feds put on a good show about trying not to take sides, but it is quite obvious they supported the Jawhawks, Redlegs, and their border ruffians 100 percent. Thinking about this, they probably wanted the same sort of disturbance to start throughout the south, but once John Brown went off the deep end it was too late to save the union as I see it now.
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