.350 Legend
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I think the .350 legend will be a total dud in the market place. Just my 2 cents worth. 9 -
Winchester, Ruger, Savage? This is one of the new cartridges that I hope makes it. It serves a purpose for those places that put a restriction on rifle cartridges during hunting season. I have had a 357 max in a 14" Contender for close to 30 years and have said that it would make a good place to start for a restricted area deer cartridge. Do you think they finally heard me because the Legends performance looks like it could be the slightly bigger brother to the Max. Maybe I should ask for a commission.😊 Bob 0 -
It is basically a hot little .357 mag in a rifle. I see it dying out in favor of the 450 Bushmaster for deer hunting. 0 -
Same year as the China flu. Which one will die first? 0 -
I would have more use for it then the .300 blackout 0 -
It is a hot seller in Ohio, being a straight walled case it is legal for deer. Ammo is plentiful. I have a hunch it will be a flash in the pan but maybe not. Recoil is lighter than the 45-70 or 450 Bushmaster for kids and ladies of delicate nature. 0 -
I don't think it is too bad but then I shoot a lot of heavy loaded 45-70's 0 -
Wilson Combat seems to be putting a bit of coin behind it. Then again dude seems to cover the spread in all things AR. Personally I'd load down my .45-70 so I don't get a sore shoulder. I wonder with all the time that has passed will anyone shorten the .45-70 shell like they did with 10mm to get a .40S&W? .45-50? I wonder if that'll fit into an AR? If so Bill Wilson would be all over that. 0 -
One of my still active FFL holding dealer friends just received a half dozen .350 Legend chambered rifles based my advice...
A special ordet limited edition production package rifle that the distributor Davidsons obtained direct from the manufacturer..
Ruger American Predator in Dark Earth Cerakote with a tactical black synthetic stock - threaded muzzle end of Bbl - recessed target crown - heavy duty profile muzzle break - oversized textured bolt handle - an optics rail running from the back of the receiver to just past the chamber were a crest would normally be placed - 5+1 detatcbable inline box magazine - 16.375" round medium profile barrel - a I'm point acro red dot - no iron sights (sight delete) (manufacturer suggests Williams fiber optic fire sights front and rear with zombie neon green light tubes or heavy duty ghost ring front and rear combo) - a matching colors water resistant armored soft case with embroidered Ruger logo and name / along with make - model - and caliber designations - heavy duty wide belly padded black nylon sling
I have been a fan of Davidson's as a distributor since the gun shop days - always looked forward to there dealer only mailers and catalogs...
We heavily ordered their manufacturer special edition limited run variants and they always sold well - I bought several of their so called exclusive package guns myself...
I think they will do well - but would appreciate your opinion on the limited variants I recommended to me friend...
Mike
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Flying Clay Disk said:Does the 450 Bushmaster have a lot of recoil? Never shot one.
No, especially in the AR platform or the Ruger American with muzzle brake. The 45-70 even with mild trapdoor loads and 300 JHP's kicks harder.0 -
Yep, I wouldn't touch it because its a Winchester proprietary cart. WW has a long established history of stopping manufacturing ammo as well as brass early if their rounds dont sell. IE: 307 win. 356 win, some of the short mags, 375 win. You get stuck with a rifle you cant get ammo for.dreher said:I think the .350 legend will be a total dud in the market place. Just my 2 cents worth.
Also there are not a good selection of pointed bullets in 35 cal out there.
One seller I know is already having trouble selling uppers in this new cal.
The 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, and others, will do the same thing.
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It seems all ammunition and firearms makers suffer from the same problem - public acceptance of anything new. I can list failures from most manufacturers concerning new but unsuccessful cartridges. The 350 Legend was designed to be a viable round for those states that have restrictions on cartridges that are legal for deer hunting. Michigan guidelines specify straight walled cartridges of 35 cal or greater in the southern half of the lower peninsula. Obviously the 6.8 and 300 do not qualify. I think the restrictions are pointless and stupid but have to put up with them. Some manufacturers must see potential in catering to those who must put up with these restrictions. It is a niche market but it is good to see it being addressed. Is it a big enough market to make it a success? I don't know but I am glad they are trying. Bobchiefr said:
Yep, I wouldn't touch it because its a Winchester proprietary cart. WW has a long established history of stopping manufacturing ammo as well as brass early if their rounds dont sell. IE: 307 win. 356 win, some of the short mags, 375 win. You get stuck with a rifle you cant get ammo for.dreher said:I think the .350 legend will be a total dud in the market place. Just my 2 cents worth.
Also there are not a good selection of pointed bullets in 35 cal out there.
One seller I know is already having trouble selling uppers in this new cal.
The 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, and others, will do the same thing.
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,Another instance of them reinventing the wheel. The 351 Winchester dated to 1907, and they made it as late as the 50's. It was quite popular with Leo's prior to the mid 40's. When surplus U.S. military guns, stole the 351's thunder.
Because of the Model 1907 was a unlocked blowback. The .351, can't quite match the 350 legend, ballisticlly though.0 -
BobJudy said:
It seems all ammunition and firearms makers suffer from the same problem - public acceptance of anything new. I can list failures from most manufacturers concerning new but unsuccessful cartridges. The 350 Legend was designed to be a viable round for those states that have restrictions on cartridges that are legal for deer hunting. Michigan guidelines specify straight walled cartridges of 35 cal or greater in the southern half of the lower peninsula. Obviously the 6.8 and 300 do not qualify. I think the restrictions are pointless and stupid but have to put up with them. Some manufacturers must see potential in catering to those who must put up with these restrictions. It is a niche market but it is good to see it being addressed. Is it a big enough market to make it a success? I don't know but I am glad they are trying. Bobchiefr said:
Yep, I wouldn't touch it because its a Winchester proprietary cart. WW has a long established history of stopping manufacturing ammo as well as brass early if their rounds dont sell. IE: 307 win. 356 win, some of the short mags, 375 win. You get stuck with a rifle you cant get ammo for.dreher said:I think the .350 legend will be a total dud in the market place. Just my 2 cents worth.
Also there are not a good selection of pointed bullets in 35 cal out there.
One seller I know is already having trouble selling uppers in this new cal.
The 6.8 SPC, 300 AAC, and others, will do the same thing.
Agree on restrictions
Can see a wee niche for the few who need to hunt with an AR, but IMHO would rather use a 38-55.
Judging from lack of sales (At least from a dealer I know) Would bet this one dies a quick death.
Still at least for reloaders, you dont have a good selection of pointed bullets,0 -
Is it a Bolt gun Ricci?IMO the 350 Legend is the answer to a non problem. The people who live in a state that only allows straight walled cartridges for deer hunting have several other options that work well on deer, like a 45-70 maybe.
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A Savage 110 with Vortex glass. 0 -
I wish that was a viable alternative in Michigans restricted zones. This is the guideline from our all powerful government idiots -Sam06 said:Is it a Bolt gun Ricci?IMO the 350 Legend is the answer to a non problem. The people who live in a state that only allows straight walled cartridges for deer hunting have several other options that work well on deer, like a 45-70 maybe.
A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a min. case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.
That rules out a lot of cartridges like the 45/70 and the 444 marlin because their case length is to long. It is a pain in the butt for those that hunt the restricted zones. I don't really have a dog in this fight because I don't hunt in those zones but the 350 seems to be a good answer for those that do. We need more hunters and maybe this will get a few more out in the field. Bob0 -
I believe they screwed the pooch, naming it the 30 legend. I know as a reloader, the first time I heard about it. My reaction, was they brought out another mongrel cartridge. With virtually unobtainable bullets. Like it's predecessor, the 351 Winchester. They should have named it the 358 legend.
As a reloader, knowing that the legend, will be able to be loaded with all the various .356 - .358 diameter bullets is a plus. Of course, the rifling twist of the barrel. Would limit the use of very light bullets accuracy wise. I believe.0 -
A .35 caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a min. case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.
I am sorry for ya'll, that is ludicrous. I guess a 357 Maximum would be a good gun to have in that area prior to the 350 coming along.
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The .350 Legend is another cartridge in the long list of newer cartridges recently released through SAAMI by Winchester. I'm sure many are simply tired of reading all the hype which surrounds each new release. It can get tiring, I know. But, and this is a big but, each new release furthers the improvements on current selections and gives us new territories to explore.
The drawback to trying to absorb the best information as opposed to the hype usually results in a percentage of shooters heaping disdain on the new releases even when there might be some saving grace to the new ideas. It gets to be difficult to keep our opinions neutral when we're being subjected to all the verbiage from the copywriters employed to write captivating blurbs and articles for the media.
The .350 Legend case resembles the .223 case on the outside but the draw creates a new design on the inside. It is inadvisable to try to make this case from .223 Remington cases. The concept bears a resemblance to the older wildcat often named the .30 Apache. What is does not compare to is the .351 Winchester Self Loader which uses a case that is truly a bastardized stand alone for a poorly designed rifle. There are exactly 4 bullets for this cartridge, one of which is a round ball!The .350 legend can use the huge selection of .357 bullets but it shines when the newer generation tipped bullets get the call.
The design parameters extend to accommodate loads for ranges out to 250 yards when loaded with bullets selected for deer hunting. The cartridge ostensibly was brought into the fray because of the deer hunting laws for certain states with controlled cartridge restrictions. While this is considered to be a wonderful improvement to those under these laws, there is more to the design.There are a couple of dozen bolt action rifles now being chambered for the .350 Legend, though the important ingredient is that this cartridge fits and functions in the AR-15 platforms by design. Examine all the loud proclamations regarding the number of new shooters and the trend, once again, to buy up all the AR platforms available. Given the flexibility of the ARs, it's a simple process of buying a new upper and changing the lower over to have a deer hunting rifle with no visit to the gunsmith or additional paperwork.
Recoil? Not nearly as much as those who favor the .45-70! This cartridge is mild enough for those who don't enjoy the recoil from significantly larger cartridges. Besides, you don't really need a .45-70 to kill a deer in the stated requiring these cartridges.
Will the .350 Legend satisfy everyone? Nope. No cartridge ever has and never will. But it fills a small niche for those folks who can put it to good use in the woods and areas closer to the urban encroachment. If it doesn't meet your needs or likes, just let it go and leave it to those who can put it to good use.Best.3 -
This is a cartridge build to appease the state of California.
As such, it is nothing more than a bad joke with good marketing.
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As I have opined in the past - with today's advances and modernized tech and superior materials combined with the stupefying computer power and data retrieval capabilities in our phones and devices many older obsolete out of production oddball out of date old fashioned prehistoric geriatric bygone extinct archaic defunct and discontinued cartridges could be reintroduced under a new name or nomenclature or designation with updated load data utilizing modern powders and bullet weights / architecture / profile and materials which could produce some surprising performance envelope results...
I have several (3 each) Italian carcano carbines (think Kennedy Special) that features progressive gain twist rifling - a chrome lined bore - stalking profile furniture - a turned down bolt handle with textured knob - a traditional carbine style forward of the receiver mounted long eye relief scout scope mount featuring a flat matte black non reflective finish Leopold VARI X scope - a trigger shoe - reshaped Schnabel for end - a pistol grip estucheon featuring a recessed marbles brass compass and a thin profile padded but stock...
Carcano is the frequently used name for a series of Italian bolt-action, magazine-fed, repeating military rifles and carbines. Introduced in 1891, this rifle was chambered for the rimless 6.5×52mm Carcano cartridge (Cartuccia Modello 1895). It was developed by the chief technician Salvatore Carcano at the Turin Army Arsenal in 1890 and called the Modello (model) 91 or simply M91. Successively replacing the previous Vetterli-Vitali rifles and carbines in 10.35×47mmR, it was produced from 1892 to 1945. The M91 was used in both rifle (fucile) and shorter-barreled carbine (moschetto) form by most Italian troops during the First World War and by Italian and some German forces during the Second World War. The rifle was also used during the Winter War by Finland, and again by regular and irregular forces in Syria, Libya, Tunisia, and Algeria during various postwar conflicts in those countries.
Until 1938, all M91 rifles and carbines were chambered for the rimless 6.5×52mm Modello 1895 cartridge, using a round-nose metal case bullet of 160 grains weight at approximately 2,000-2,400 ft/s muzzle velocity, depending upon barrel length.
Italian ordnance designers introduced a spitzer-type bullet for the new cartridge, with the tip filled with aluminum to produce an unstable (tumbling) projectile upon impact in soft tissue (a design most likely copied from the .303 British Mk VII bullet).
The Type I Carcano rifle was produced by Italy for the Japanese Empire prior to World War II. After the invasion of China, all Arisaka production was required for use of the Imperial Army, so the Imperial Navy contracted with Italy for this weapon in 1937. The Type I is based on the Type 38 rifle and uses a Carcano action, but retains the Arisaka/Mauser type 5-round box magazine. The Type I was used primarily by Japanese Imperial Naval Forces and was chambered for the Japanese 6.5×50mm Arisaka cartridge. Approximately 60,000 Type I rifles were produced by Italian arsenals for Japan. Acceptance trials - after action reports - and inter service match target results noted favorable to admirable performance when proper quality control measures were strictly adhered to during ammo production ie component assembly and uniformity over each lot run.
(Left to Right) 7.92mm Mauser (also called 8mm Mauser), 6.5mm Carcano, and 7.35mm Carcano
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The Russians created a very similar cartridge, a number of years ago. It's the 9.3 mm X 39 mm. For use in a couple of supressed rifles, they specifically made for this cartridge. There cartridge ballistics, is completely different though. 250 grain bullet @ <1000 FPS. Supposedly it's effective out to 200 meters. But personally, I got my doubts about that. 0 -
Warbirds said:
This is a cartridge build to appease the state of California.
As such, it is nothing more than a bad joke with good marketing.
The .350 Legend has absolutely NOTHING to do with the State of California! In fact:States like Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and others in the Midwest have laws allowing the use of straight-walled rifle cases in shotgun-only deer areas. These areas are vast and the straight-walled cases quickly overtook traditional options.This statement clarifies the aim of this cartridge where States, usually shotgun only, are rewriting their rules to allow shorter, low pressure, straight wall cartridges.
This one you can't pin on the idiots in California.
While it is certainly NOT a bad joke, it is being represented by some decent marketing. The kicker will be if Winchester continues the marketing and support for longer than their usual short sighted plans.
Best.
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Reading all the posts above, can only hope introduction of this cartridge convinces some bullet manufacturers to introduce a some really good pointed bullets in 35 caliber.
Most all available today are round nose and flat tip. Can certainly use them in 358 Win. 357 max, 35 Rem, 35 Whelen and other established carts.0 -
Here it is for all you fans and people trapped in states with weird hunting laws
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I see what you mean. Not a lot of middle ground there. Seems that way with a lot of cartridges. It can't be that we shooters are an opinionated bunch could it? By the way thanks - one of the videos was made by a guy that I worked with 20 years ago. It was good to see Gabe but I just don't understand why he looks 20 years older and I have maintained my youthful good looks.😄 BobFlying Clay Disk said:Boy, some people really like this cartridge I guess, and others REALLY hate it!
I mean like REALLY, REALLY, hate it!Just go search some U-toob.
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