Winchester 70 frustration
So, about 6 months ago, I bought a new winchester 70 in 25-06. Right out of the box, it would only fire about half the time. Took it to my gunsmith, and he replaced the firing pin and spring. He said the one in the rifle didn't meet spec. Took it home, pillar bedded the stock, glass bedded the action, and floated the barrel. Ready, or so I thought. I've put around 200 or so rounds thru it, and gotta say, this is the worst shooting rifle I currently own, or ever owned. One day it might shoot a group of 1 1/4", and the next day, with the same ammo, it shoots 2 1/2" groups. I've tried at least 4 powders, R-19, H4831SC, Ramshot Magnum, and Norma MRP, and maybe a couple more. Can't recall all the specific bullets, but I've tried flatbase and boattails, solid copper and standard cup and core, factory ammo as well. Thought my bedding was probably flawed, so yesterday, I put a Hogue pillar bedded synthetic stock on it. Not the best stock, I know, but nevertheless. This morning, with much anticipation, shot 8 rounds of federal premium factory, and got a dismal 3" group. So much for the bedding being flawed. It's not the scope. It's been completely reliable. Never been hunted, a bench scope only. It's a weaver fixed 10x grand slam tactical. I wish it was me, but then took my ruger no 1 in 25-06 out for the first time in 6 months with some hand loads tuned for that rifle. 61.8 grains of magpro pushing a 98 grain sledgehammer. 1st shot @ 2" to the 4:00, and next 3 took out the center x. So much for shooter error. Took the 70, and put it back in the gun rack. It will stay there until I get it rebarreled. I'm sick of it. Got too much in it to sell it. I'd get hosed if I traded it. Don't really need it anyway. My 264 win mag shoots 130 gr sciroccos into 3/4", my ruger no 1 shoots 98 gr sledgehammers @ an inch or so on a pretty regular basis, and I have a custom barreled 6.5-06 to be delivered in june, when I finish paying for it. So much for having any faith in Winchester. Kinda saddens me.
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After reading the post, "new" means new to you, and not factory new? You mention that the scope is good, did you check the rings and bases? 0 -
The rifle is, or was factory new, not just new to me. Checked the rings and bases. They're torqued to 18 inch pounds for the rings, and 30 inch pounds for the bases.
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Sure sounds like a scope/ mount / rings problem to me. Sounds like time to dismount the scope . Check the rings and mount and try another scope . Cheaper than a rebarrel.
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If the warranty card was still in the box, I'd be calling Winchester
Does it happen to be a featherweight?0 -
Sounds like he already blew the warranty 0 -
Maybe on the FTF, but maybe not on the accuracy part... If it were mine, I'd be calling them up..pulsarnc said:Sounds like he already blew the warranty0 -
Is this one of the FN guns or someone's left over New Haven production? The last of the New Haven guns were slapped together out of whatever they had before the factory closed. If it is FN I'd give them a call and see what they say. I've got a half dozen USRAC ( New Haven ) model 70s and they have all been keepers. All have shot under an inch with factory loads and better with my handloads. I know you say it is not the scope but if it was me I'd swap it out with another one just to rule that out as a possible problem. One bad spring inside on the erecter tube and you can have these kinds of problems. Good luck. Bob 0 -
Knew a smith a number of years back had one in his shop that had the same symptoms. One day would shoot almost acceptable, the next would pattern like a shotgun.
Turned out the firing pin port in the bolt face was a bit off center. Pull the firing pin and check for unusual wear off to one side.0 -
Winchester? 0 -
Still have the warranty card. Filled it out, or registered it online, can't remember which, but honestly, I'm so p'o'ed at winchester, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of fixing it. The firing pin issue was fixed by my gunsmith before it had 2 boxes of ammo through it. As far as the scope, the scope on it now is the 2nd scope I've put on it. The first scope was a USA made, Burris 2-10 x 50, that I had refurbished before I got this rifle. Same issue, so I took it off and put the current scope on because it has been completely reliable. No, it's not a featherweight, it's a sporter model, made overseas. Portugal, if I'm not mistaken.
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If you don't want to hassle with Winchester, it sounds like you need to wait for the gun shows to re open.... 0 -
I'll tell ya, I've never had any rifle act like this. It's just baffling. If I take it to a gun show, I'd just be handling off a problem to someone else. I wouldn't feel right. I'm not gonna quit on it, just put a new barrel on it, and I have to think that's got to be the problem, cause I've done about everything else.
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I bought a Sporter II about a year before they shut down New Haven only because I wanted a piece of Winchester before they went under. Had to bed around receiver lug a little but a real tack driver. Looked at one from FN out of SC about a year later and the floor plate and trigger guard did not match rest of receiver. Never went back. Sat in woods with the Sporter II a half day and just did not feel right. You know like getting up in the morning and forgetting to put your clothes on. Went home at noon and picked up my old Pre-64 Mod 70 FW. Shot a eight pointer at dusk. All the deer I ever shot were with this rifle and 150 grain PSP. One year I used 180gr. What a mess. 0 -
I had a similar problem. Ping-pong groups. Sometimes a little high or low but mostly L or R 1 1/2" or less. Couldn't understand it, messed with loads,powder, bullet weights, sizing and on and on. checked everything. Gave up on the scope and in the process of mounting another found that the windage screws on the rear base weren't making complete contact with the ring. Very slight play you could only feel it by twisting it. Someone said to grind a little off the windage screws but I just replaced the mounts with the same brand as the rings. Hope you find the problem. 0 -
For what I'll have in this one after a barrel, I probably could've bought a pre-64. I have 5 ruger 77 hawkeyes, and they all will shoot sub-moa. I just wanted a winchester for the sake of having a winchester, and I guess it isn't turning out very well. After a barrel, it won't really be much of a winchester, but I won't be buying another one, that's for sure.
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Agree, try a different scope. By the way, that old firing pin, chuck that sucker up and heat her up in the middle and stretch her and re-harden and re-dress to specs and good as new. 0 -
First thing I'd do is swap scopes with a known "tack driver." See if the inconsistency stays with the scope or with the rifle. 3 -
4205raymond and truthful, I swapped scopes from a freshly refurbished from the factory, 2-10 x 50 burris scope to this weaver grand slam, fixed 10x tactical scope which is a known tack driver. The same problem never changed with the scope change. The firing pin is fine. It was replaced by a very good gunsmith after less than 40 rounds were through the rifle because it was only detonating the primer half the time or less. The gunsmith said the original firing pin didn't meet spec. Haven't had any firing issues since it was replaced. The issue is that it shoots more like a shotgun than a rifle, whether I'm shooting factory ammo or hand loads. The same ammo, whether it be factory or handloads shoot fine in my ruger no 1 25-06.
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Look at the shot rds and take measurements. OAL you name it to see if they are consistent . That is a start. How does it lock up bolt wise. Tight bolt , average, loose?? Head space problem..?? Take a loom and look at the muzzle crown. One little slight burr or unequal ..non concentric on it will cause problems.0 -
Seriously doubt you have a scope problem from reading your posts.
If the barrel is freefloated and the crown is good as SF mentioned, you probably have a bad barrel as you already surmised.
There are many reasons for poor accuracy issues inherent to the barrel itself beginning with metallurgy and the manufacturing process.
Surprisingly, I have seen bad barrels on new rifles in my years. Recently had an AR in 224 Valkyrie that I could never shoot a group under 4". Replacing the barrel fixed the problem in practically all cases.0 -
I realize you no longer have a firing pin problem. Was just a suggestion for a easy fix on your short firing pin if you did not already toss it. Never hurts to have a extra one. After re-reading all these posts I think it is time to call FN in SC. Why should you re-barrel it and settle for half a Winchester. Just my 2 cents.hadjii said:4205raymond and truthful, I swapped scopes from a freshly refurbished from the factory, 2-10 x 50 burris scope to this weaver grand slam, fixed 10x tactical scope which is a known tack driver. The same problem never changed with the scope change. The firing pin is fine. It was replaced by a very good gunsmith after less than 40 rounds were through the rifle because it was only detonating the primer half the time or less. The gunsmith said the original firing pin didn't meet spec. Haven't had any firing issues since it was replaced. The issue is that it shoots more like a shotgun than a rifle, whether I'm shooting factory ammo or hand loads. The same ammo, whether it be factory or handloads shoot fine in my ruger no 1 25-06.
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hadjii,What scope bases/mount does this rifle have, one piece or two? What brand/manufacture? What rings?
I ask because I had a similar issue with a Post Model 70, and I found a problem with the receiver. Short version, the receiver was out of spec at the area around the screw holes where the front base attached. When the original 2 piece bases were installed, the front was out of line with the rear. I found this when I installed a one piece picatinny rail, as there was a 'dip' in the rail when installed. Rail installed correctly on another rifle, which led me to check more thoroughly on the the gun with issues. The area around the two front screws was too low (specifically the screw at the rear, near the opening to the magazine), causing the rail to bow when the screws were torqued. I shimmed under the screws to get the rail to install flat ( no dip/bow). I would not have thought to check this, and stumbled into it when I decided I wanted a picatinny rail. Might be worth a look, before you rebarrel.0 -
You have other firearms to shoot. Box it up send it back to Winchester. They have no clue you repaired the firing pin issue. Nothing to lose and everything to gain. If it comes back not good enough then you can really complain. 3 -
I, too, would expect more from 'The Rifleman's Rifle'! 0 -
Send it back and play with the others while it's gone. I've had to do that with a couple of recent "new to me" purchases of 1970-80's vintage S&W handguns that had issues I couldn't resolve.
Stay safe.0 -
I do not bad mouth much of anything THAT IS STILL UNDER A WARRANTY until after I have give the warranty people a chance to make things correct.
If it's still a POS after they have attempted making things right under the warranty and/or their CS people are A holes and leave a bad taste in my mouth then it''s time to add them to my S list. (and I do have a Big S long list) and I do not even have to check the S list to see if someone is on the list. I've noticed that several of the companies on my list is no longer in business mainly due to weak CS issues. Once they make they list, (and some are just people) they are never ever removed either and I NEVER buy ANY of their products again. It's the next thing to carved in stone. I even make copies so as I can give the S list to friends or if anyone ask's me what to buy, I can give them a copy of the S list of things to NOT BUY.
I've also seen guys flog into things that are still under warranty, they have then voided the warranty, then they bad mouth the product because they voided the warranty and could not get parts, etc.
This S list procedure has served me well over the years. I also usually carefully check into a products warranty before buying. Got to watch out for the small print, especially the word limited lifetime warranty. (for example a lifetime warranty muffler shop that is usually out of business in couple years
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Winchester quit making "The Rifleman's Rifle" 56 years ago.kannoneer said:I, too, would expect more from 'The Rifleman's Rifle'!3 -
I've got one in .270 Win from '78 that'd disprove your statement. The only thing that's been done to it is to make sure the barrel and stock had no contact and I re-finished the beat to crap stock. Dime sized groups with factory 130 grain Core-Lokt's is pretty tough to beat! It doesn't have the controlled feed, but very seldom does one need to operate a bolt gun while hanging upside down.chiefr said:
Winchester quit making "The Rifleman's Rifle" 56 years ago.kannoneer said:I, too, would expect more from 'The Rifleman's Rifle'!
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thought he used a lever action???kannoneer said:I, too, would expect more from 'The Rifleman's Rifle'!0
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