50 yrs ago a sad day in history
Kent State shootings 4 young adults murdered.
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Remember it well.
Time to dust off some Buffalo Springfield.0 -
something happening there the3res a man with a gun over there. better stopnow, whats that sound? everybody look whats going down..........foggy memory of all the lyrics but i sang it often 0 -
Or, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young's "Ohio".Brookwood said:Remember it well.
Time to dust off some Buffalo Springfield.
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many years ago I worked with a old fellow who was there as one of the nation guard . he told me he was not in the same area as the shooting that he was in a different group on campus , but it was a terrible day he will never forget , he added a few details about the day however it was so long ago that I talked with him I do not remember his story completely . 0 -
I was 12 and remember "hippies" throwing Dixie cups full of cement at us as we drove by campus going to visit family, there were six of us in Moms Buick. The college kids were terrorizing Ravenna Township residents. We lived about 6 miles from campus and it was mayhem all around.
The kids should have NEVER been shot at, it was a tragedy of historic nature. The war was a bigger tragedy and could have been won quickly if we never went there with troops. Of course the winners would be the current Owners but that is a different story.0 -
It's safe to say that there was some seriously bad feelings that the military and civilians held for one another...big time...BIG TIME. I don't recall any military man that lost any sleep over this incident. 0 -
Poke the bear.......................................
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I was on the drill field at the time and sometime during the day another DI looked at me while holding up 2 fingers in the form of a V, and I said something like what's that? He said National Guard 2, Kent State 0...and grinned from ear to ear. Looking back.. that was an interim score.
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Ask me if I'm saddened about the liberal nutcase that was killed at Charlottesvillie, VA.
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Should have shot a lot more of the fifth column traitors. 0 -
A tragedy, but seems like nothing compared to the 56,000 Americans killed and the est. over a million Vietnamese who died in this lunacy. 6 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY
50 years, same-same.3 -
"kimi said:It's safe to say that there was some seriously bad feelings that the military and civilians held for one another...big time...BIG TIME. I don't recall any military man that lost any sleep over this incident."
This...I was overseas at an airbase in the UK, and remember reading about this in the Stars & Stripes. We sat around and wondered who would throw a rock at a young National Guard kid with a rifle.
We also noticed that the college anti-war protest usually stopped for summer recess..0 -
May of 1970 I was a freshman in high school . School was about a half and half mix of country kids and kids whose parents wee members of the USAF, stationed At Seymour Johnson Air Force Base . Not a lot of protesters in my neck of the woods . I think the main feelings were of disbelief that such a thing was happening . On a side lot one of my friend’s father was a pilot who was a POW in the Hanoi Hilton . Thankfully he did come home at wars end
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One of the dead was an ROTC cadet. Not quite a "fifth column" member.gruntled2 said:Should have shot a lot more of the fifth column traitors.
The NG troops were the wrong folks put in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. The politicians who made the decisions leading to the deaths should have been locked up for life.0 -
Wow! Troops shoot civilians and some of you guys applaud it. It doesn't matter what you think of the people that got shot because they weren't the real issue. Troops shot civilians and the troops were activated by our own government, that was the issue. Is it okay to turn troops against US civilians as long as you don't like them? 0 -
Yep, sad huh? On a forum that should be comprised of patriots no less..........SCOUT5 said:Wow! Troops shoot civilians and some of you guys applaud it. It doesn't matter what you think of the people that got shot because they weren't the real issue. Troops shot civilians and the troops were activated by our own government, that was the issue. Is it okay to turn troops against US civilians as long as you don't like them?0 -
We've got this thing called the US Constitution: Amendment ICongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances
As far as I know the student demonstrators were not being violent.0 -
allen griggs said:As far as I know the student demonstrators were not being violent.Well I wasn't there, nor am I saying who was right and who was wrong. But this, from the Kent State website:Friday evening in downtown Kent began peacefully with the usual socializing in the bars, but events quickly escalated into a violent confrontation between protestors and local police. The exact causes of the disturbance are still the subject of debate, but bonfires were built in the streets of downtown Kent, cars were stopped, police cars were hit with bottles, and some store windows were broken. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities. Kent Mayor Leroy Satrom declared a state of emergency, called Governor James Rhodes' office to seek assistance, and ordered all of the bars closed. The decision to close the bars early increased the size of the angry crowd. Police eventually succeeded in using tear gas to disperse the crowd from downtown, forcing them to move several blocks back to the campus.
As the Guard arrived in Kent at about 10 p.m., they encountered a tumultuous scene. The wooden ROTC building adjacent to the Commons was ablaze and would eventually burn to the ground that evening, with well over 1,000 demonstrators surrounding the building. Controversy continues to exist regarding who was responsible for setting fire to the ROTC building, but radical protestors were assumed to be responsible because of their actions in interfering with the efforts of firemen to extinguish the fire as well as cheering the burning of the building. Confrontations between Guardsmen and demonstrators continued into the night, with tear gas filling the campus and numerous arrests being made.
A Kent State police officer standing by the Guard made an announcement using a bullhorn. When this had no effect, the officer was placed in a jeep along with several Guardsmen and driven across the Commons to tell the protestors that the rally was banned and that they must disperse. This was met with angry shouting and rocks, and the jeep retreated. Canterbury then ordered his men to load and lock their weapons, tear gas canisters were fired into the crowd around the Victory Bell, and the Guard began to march across the Commons to disperse the rally. The protestors moved up a steep hill, known as Blanket Hill, and then down the other side of the hill onto the Prentice Hall parking lot as well as an adjoining practice football field. Most of the Guardsmen followed the students directly and soon found themselves somewhat trapped on the practice football field because it was surrounded by a fence. Yelling and rock throwing reached a peak as the Guard remained on the field for about 10 minutes.0 -
I remember it. What a cluster-^$*(&*. 0 -
Applaud it? Maybe some did and for good reasons as they saw people as they were, while they and their comrades were in harm's way, bleeding and dying for their country. I did not applaud it then, but I did not lose any sleep over it either...better them than us, BIG TIME...us being those who wore the uniform and went off to fight a war. To me these type protesters are no better than those at Charlottesville attacking those in defense of Robert E. Lee's monument, or the likes of the thieving, murdering Jayhawkers and their kind long before them.Horse Plains Drifter said:
Yep, sad huh? On a forum that should be comprised of patriots no less..........SCOUT5 said:Wow! Troops shoot civilians and some of you guys applaud it. It doesn't matter what you think of the people that got shot because they weren't the real issue. Troops shot civilians and the troops were activated by our own government, that was the issue. Is it okay to turn troops against US civilians as long as you don't like them?
Maybe it's time for some folks to rethink what being a patriot really means? Who was burning our flag, sending death threats to our wives, mothers, and other family members? Who was physically attacking our military personnel, and spitting on them, cursing them and everything they stood for? Was it the men and women who were dying in war zones and those in support of them, or those supporting the Kent state types?
The right to demonstrate? Perhaps we should remember that individuals who support radical, militant activities just might be repaid in kind, and then some.
The Constitution...politicians prostitute it daily...and I do not have to tell anyone who the worst criminal in our history was to this end, either...but deep down even the worst diehard knows who it is.
For the people who would like to let sleeping dogs lie...I have learned to forgive...but, if you protest and there is to be applause, I hope that I am among those being entertained.0 -
Where were you when this was going on? Did you wear the uniform and have to attempt to coexist with these militants? Unfortunately, politicians have always had agendas that are meant to conquer and divide the people...but don't attempt to make out that the militants at Kent state were more patriotic than the National Guard contingent. Where were you and what were you doing when this was going on?SCOUT5 said:Wow! Troops shoot civilians and some of you guys applaud it. It doesn't matter what you think of the people that got shot because they weren't the real issue. Troops shot civilians and the troops were activated by our own government, that was the issue. Is it okay to turn troops against US civilians as long as you don't like them?SCOUT5 said:Wow! Troops shoot civilians and some of you guys applaud it. It doesn't matter what you think of the people that got shot because they weren't the real issue. Troops shot civilians and the troops were activated by our own government, that was the issue. Is it okay to turn troops against US civilians as long as you don't like them?0 -
Well looks like I was wrong. If the demonstrators burned down the ROTC building then they are in violation of the constitution.
It was a bad day in US history, but the Vietnam War was a bad war.0 -
Agree on both counts that it was a bad day as we look back, Allen. But it was roughly 175,000 times better than 1861.allen griggs said:Well looks like I was wrong. If the demonstrators burned down the ROTC building then they are in violation of the constitution.
It was a bad day in US history, but the Vietnam War was a bad war.0 -
Your patriotic comment is misplaced as you know that was not stated or implied in my comments. Does a person need to have worn a uniform to be justified in evaluating our government? All working people in this country pay the taxes that keep our government, including the military operating. Yet less than 8% of us serve in the military. If only those that served should make decision or have opinions perhaps they should also pay all the taxes. Much respect to those of you who are and have served. It takes all of us the make this country run and certainly the military has a very valuable position in that . In answer to you questions I have not worn a military uniform and I was a child when this happened. I remember it, I remember the adults discussing it, but any real knowledge of it comes from reading and watching the information available.kimi said:
Where were you when this was going on? Did you wear the uniform and have to attempt to coexist with these militants? Unfortunately, politicians have always had agendas that are meant to conquer and divide the people...but don't attempt to make out that the militants at Kent state were more patriotic than the National Guard contingent. Where were you and what were you doing when this was going on?
In the USA we should not use the military against civilians, that was my point and IMO it's a valid one. If you want to interpret that as support for the protesters, than that is something you choose to think, not something I expressed. The National Guard troops should not have been placed in that position. IMO the responsibility for the National Guard being there lies with the government officials who made that decision.
I appreciate and respect your service, I value your opinions. My family and friends who served in Vietnam have shared with me their experiences on returning home from that war. One of my best friends has shared with me through the years his progression of thoughts and emotions associated with it. It's interesting and informative and I am lucky to have the opportunity to hear of his insight on it.0 -
I disagreed with your statement about applauding the troops that shot into the Kent state mob. We appear to agree on the the government part.SCOUT5 said:
Your patriotic comment is misplaced as you know that was not stated or implied in my comments. Does a person need to have worn a uniform to be justified in evaluating our government? All working people in this country pay the taxes that keep our government, including the military operating. Yet less than 8% of us serve in the military. If only those that served should make decision or have opinions perhaps they should also pay all the taxes. Much respect to those of you who are and have served. It takes all of us the make this country run and certainly the military has a very valuable position in that . In answer to you questions I have not worn a military uniform and I was a child when this happened. I remember it, I remember the adults discussing it, but any real knowledge of it comes from reading and watching the information available.kimi said:
Where were you when this was going on? Did you wear the uniform and have to attempt to coexist with these militants? Unfortunately, politicians have always had agendas that are meant to conquer and divide the people...but don't attempt to make out that the militants at Kent state were more patriotic than the National Guard contingent. Where were you and what were you doing when this was going on?
In the USA we should not use the military against civilians, that was my point and IMO it's a valid one. If you want to interpret that as support for the protesters, than that is something you choose to think, not something I expressed. The National Guard troops should not have been placed in that position. IMO the responsibility for the National Guard being there lies with the government officials who made that decision.
I appreciate and respect your service, I value your opinions. My family and friends who served in Vietnam have shared with me their experiences on returning home from that war. One of my best friends has shared with me through the years his progression of thoughts and emotions associated with it. It's interesting and informative and I am lucky to have the opportunity to hear of his insight on it.
Thank you for clarifying your position as stated.
I respect and appreciate your support of our military and value your opinions as well. This topic was not even worthy of being posted, though, and in my opinion was meant to stir-the-pot.0 -
Thank you Kimi. Applaud was not a good word choice for my post. I realized that when I read it later. 0 -
Kent State has been badly distorted by 'historians' over the years.
For the most part, we have been lead to believe that it was a bunch of peace-loving kids who were placing daisy's down the muzzles of the guardsmen's rifles. While I do not believe that we can justify the deaths, it is not correct, IMO, to throw out a murder charge at some kid who was being pelted with rocks and decided he had had enough.0
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