2nd Opinions? Was I sold a 'Used' gun as 'Factory New'?
Hi there,
I'm looking for a second opinion here, since I want to make sure I'm being reasonable and not the one who's in the wrong. I recently purchased a Springfield 911 .380 on GunBroker mainly out of vanity because the aesthetics vibed with me and I'm tired of my LCP for pocket carry (this is far from my only gun). I purchased it as 'Factory New' from a Licensed FFL (not some casual gun owner). It was won at auction for around $345, at some $28 less than retail at PalmettoStateArmory at the time (so a good deal for sure, but not a crazy good deal compared to regular retail either). Only three listing pictures, not particularly high resolution, but one main reason for buying 'Factory New' is not having to go through the hassle of asking questions and combing over images.
When I went to pick it up at my FFL, I was picking up some 5 firearms in total so this one didn't get my undivided attention. Plus, with the COVID situation they were trying to rush people through and the background check (surprisingly) only took 5 minutes to pass. A mark on the rear sight caught my attention and the ejection port had some carbon residue that wiped off with my finger, but on a busy counter it wasn't really the best place to inspect it in detail, and since it was sold as 'Factory New' from a licensed FFL my guard was down.
Once I got home and disassembled it it immediately became pretty obvious - to me at least - that it was a functionally used gun. The rear sight had been drifted with a steel punch leaving a clear round indent (on both sides), and done so poorly that the corner of the sight was chipped straight off. The breech face had caked carbon, and the ejector claw was rounded and worn through the finish straight to the metal. There was a lot of signs of wear on the firearm, but for that see the attached images. I have near-decade old firearms I could leave in better condition with a decent cleaning, some cold blue and metal polish than this gun. As far as I'm concerned, there's no way for me to reason how a firearm that's been poorly worked on by an amateur gunsmith and has a worn ejector can be validly listed as 'Factory New'.
I sent an (overly) detailed email to the seller, with commented images to at least make an objectively valid case because I don't take lightly to the fact of having to return the firearm. There's more details I could add, but for the moment I just need to make sure it isn't me being overzealous. So:
- Please look at the images. Does this look like a normal 'Factory New' condition for a Springfield pistol? Or does it look used?
- What type of action would be warranted in this situation? Return, feedback, chargeback, other claims, etc.
At the end this issue will be solved one way or another, but it just really surprised me to buy a 'Factory New' gun from what appeared to be a credible vendor and receive something in this condition. I can live with someone selling a pristine safe-queen as 'New' if I'm none the wiser, but that doesn't seem like the case here. Then again, if I'm out of line, please let me know.
To see some high-resolution images I took of the firearm with the signs which make me suspect it is clearly 'Used' pointed out, please see:
https://imgur.com/a/GRtFzCu
Here are a couple of the worst just to give an idea. Let me know if this is perfectly reasonable condition for a 'Factory New' firearm from Springfield Armory which is supposed to have an MSRP of $629.
I'm looking for a second opinion here, since I want to make sure I'm being reasonable and not the one who's in the wrong. I recently purchased a Springfield 911 .380 on GunBroker mainly out of vanity because the aesthetics vibed with me and I'm tired of my LCP for pocket carry (this is far from my only gun). I purchased it as 'Factory New' from a Licensed FFL (not some casual gun owner). It was won at auction for around $345, at some $28 less than retail at PalmettoStateArmory at the time (so a good deal for sure, but not a crazy good deal compared to regular retail either). Only three listing pictures, not particularly high resolution, but one main reason for buying 'Factory New' is not having to go through the hassle of asking questions and combing over images.
When I went to pick it up at my FFL, I was picking up some 5 firearms in total so this one didn't get my undivided attention. Plus, with the COVID situation they were trying to rush people through and the background check (surprisingly) only took 5 minutes to pass. A mark on the rear sight caught my attention and the ejection port had some carbon residue that wiped off with my finger, but on a busy counter it wasn't really the best place to inspect it in detail, and since it was sold as 'Factory New' from a licensed FFL my guard was down.
Once I got home and disassembled it it immediately became pretty obvious - to me at least - that it was a functionally used gun. The rear sight had been drifted with a steel punch leaving a clear round indent (on both sides), and done so poorly that the corner of the sight was chipped straight off. The breech face had caked carbon, and the ejector claw was rounded and worn through the finish straight to the metal. There was a lot of signs of wear on the firearm, but for that see the attached images. I have near-decade old firearms I could leave in better condition with a decent cleaning, some cold blue and metal polish than this gun. As far as I'm concerned, there's no way for me to reason how a firearm that's been poorly worked on by an amateur gunsmith and has a worn ejector can be validly listed as 'Factory New'.
I sent an (overly) detailed email to the seller, with commented images to at least make an objectively valid case because I don't take lightly to the fact of having to return the firearm. There's more details I could add, but for the moment I just need to make sure it isn't me being overzealous. So:
- Please look at the images. Does this look like a normal 'Factory New' condition for a Springfield pistol? Or does it look used?
- What type of action would be warranted in this situation? Return, feedback, chargeback, other claims, etc.
At the end this issue will be solved one way or another, but it just really surprised me to buy a 'Factory New' gun from what appeared to be a credible vendor and receive something in this condition. I can live with someone selling a pristine safe-queen as 'New' if I'm none the wiser, but that doesn't seem like the case here. Then again, if I'm out of line, please let me know.
To see some high-resolution images I took of the firearm with the signs which make me suspect it is clearly 'Used' pointed out, please see:
https://imgur.com/a/GRtFzCu
Here are a couple of the worst just to give an idea. Let me know if this is perfectly reasonable condition for a 'Factory New' firearm from Springfield Armory which is supposed to have an MSRP of $629.
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Yeah, I would not be too happy either. I think you are going about it in a reasonable manner. Detailed photos and comments E-mailed to the seller. See what he has to say. Perhaps he will be reasonable and offer you some options. Good Luck.
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Very long and detailed but appears to omit the sellers return policy...if any. Was it sold AS IS, or was there a return period? You left the impression that you gave the pistol a cursory inspection at the dealer before taking it home and discovering the issues. 0 -
That makes me feel much better. I'd hate to be "that guy", but I just can't see how this is the normal condition for a "Factory New" gun. Glad I'm not crazy.KenK/84Bravo said:Yeah, I would not be too happy either. I think you are going about it in a reasonable manner.
It was sold 'As Is' and 'No Returns', but I think that's mostly irrelevant. If it's okay to sell a 'Used' gun as 'Factory New' just because you listed it as 'As Is', why in the world would anyone bother selling a used gun at used gun prices? Imagine if you bought a 'New' car and then found it had 1k miles and had been used for test drives. I'm fine with calling it a mistake, but someone less charitable could reasonably call this fraud.mark christian said:
Very long and detailed but appears to omit the sellers return policy...if any. Was it sold AS IS, or was there a return period? You left the impression that you gave the pistol a cursory inspection at the dealer before taking it home and discovering the issues.
Just to be clear, per GunBroker's Firearm Condition Standards, 'Factory New' means "Not previously sold at retail. In the exact same condition as current factory production year.". I can only imagine that also implies 'not taken for a spin at the shooting range, and not worked on by Bubba with a steel punch and a hammer".0 -
Nothing can be done here in the forum- in fact auction issues are prohibited from being discussed here, so you'll have to request a refund from the seller or, failing that, contact Gun Broker Customer Support. 0
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