How did they all get infected??
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Illegal immigrants in the workforce - and a high rate of turnover amongst legitimate employees.
Plus I am a certified USDA inspector trained in fredericksburg and a QC guy. I have done all the haccp and primus and sqf and iso programs. I was food safety manager for juniors cheesecake before the cancer.
They don't spend the money on training of staff and retention - on supplies and materials and equipment. ATP testing and swab sampling and such are hard to do right and honest and keep up.
I guarantee you I could close a good percentage of such facilities down and initiate a recall if I was the inspector.
I know exactly what it takes and many don't or won't put up with the rules or cost to actually be compliant and safe.
Mike
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Puzzling here also, as an old classmate of my Brides worked at JBS meatpacking in Greeley Colo, at the time of his Covid-19 death, that plant had 108 positives and 5 deaths. Not sure if that was all under one roof?
Mule0 -
The same way people get infected with the flu. Only with the flu some have natural immunity and some have immunity through vaccination, then some get sick. Only with this there is no vaccine, few would have immunity, and more get sick. The more that get sick coupled with decreased immunity means more get sick. Once it's in a group it is going to spread. 0 -
No different than any other low paying industry. In this case probably an under educated work force that did not know enough to practice sensible precautions coming and going to and from work. One worker living paycheck to paycheck gets sick and either can't afford to, or is to stupid to stay home. Bob 3 -
To follow Mikes comments, the Smithfield plant in South Dakota is a case study in what not to do.
A 4 shift operation, meaning that every 8 hours some 800 people enter and 800 people leave concurrently.
There are 40+ languages spoken at the plant, and workers were paid a 'responsibility bonus' if they did not miss work prior to the plant closing.
If found to be sick, they were told to go home and given an instruction packet that they may or may not have been able to read.
The SD Governor also commented that much of the infection occurred off-site as it is a community of extended families, with a high percentage working at the plant.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/language-barriers-helped-turn-smithfield-foods-meat-plant-covid-19-n1190736
In short, a failure of the management of the company to do what it could to inform and protect its employees, and a workforce that may or may not have understood the potential for contagion. To date, 2 plant employees have died of illness attributed to Covid-19 out of 783 who have tested positive. The plant was closed down on 14 April, so we are now at the two week mark where on-site infection at the plant should have played itself out.
We have no way of knowing exactly how many were infected on the job or at home, but I think it safe to say that giving someone a bonus to go to work during a flu season is a bad idea, and giving that bonus when there is something like Covid-19 out there is a stupid one.0 -
Oh it's way worse than that.
The facility you mention would require a complete and total of wash and foam and clean and disinfect - unbolting equipment from the floor and certified trained cleaning crew...
Figure that if they throw money and staff at the issue cleaning and testing in the safe compliant correct manner is a minimum 8 hour shift - we're no other employees are present and the site is shut down.
I have seen stuff that will make a Billy goat puke.
Mike
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It concerns me not. I cook the meat I eat to kill any surface contaminant. Anyone that does not deserves to get every illness they do. There are way worse things to contract than covid lurking in meat plants. E-coli, Trichinosis, Salmonella, the list goes on. 0 -
We keep hearing about tp employees at a plant, a store, etc... I’m confident that a good portion of these hot spots comes from what they do away from work. You can distance all day at work, then go out and party like it’s 1999... 0 -
Well except for mad cow proper heat and cooking well done can kill may things...
But not prions - and jacobs crutchfield should only afflict people who eat people - cannibals...
And some of the MRSA analogs you will get infected just handling the meat during prep...
Here's another good question - how many folk are eating venison with CWD - and are not getting there deer tested when harvested...
Mike
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I have a brother in law who worked several years on a meat packing plant. He has been a vegetarian ever since!
All the deer I have ever harvested have been fat and very healthy looking. Innards and lungs showed no abnormalities. Never did any testing and never lost any sleep worrying.0 -
Personal opinion?
It's pretty simple. Hundreds of workers working in close proximity. The masks they wear are not there to protect them, but the product. (Nor are they medical grade.)
Only takes one to spread like wildfire. Apparently, from what I have been reading - this virus is highly contagious.
The same reason, all the large plants around me are closed. There is no "Social Distancing," in plants such as the ones described. One gets it, guess what?
My 2 cents.
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mrmike08075 said:
Well except for mad cow proper heat and cooking well done can kill may things...
But not prions - and jacobs crutchfield should only afflict people who eat people - cannibals...
And some of the MRSA analogs you will get infected just handling the meat during prep...
Here's another good question - how many folk are eating venison with CWD - and are not getting there deer tested when harvested...
Mike
To my knowledge none of the prion diseases are contracted via consumption of meat. No one is exactly sure how it happens.0 -
Mike, I too have had courses in food sanitation and processing and totally agree with you. But if we let ourselves be consumed by fear concerning our food supply we would starve. It is impossible to process great quantities of food and not have some contamination. Most food scientists and the government understand this. That is why the guidelines for how many bug parts and rodent hairs are allowed in your oatmeal. Our ancestors ate those same bugs and rodents to survive. I personally don't worry about whole cuts of meat as I control the cooking. What should be more concerning would be prepared foods but the market has to monitor itself because killing off your customer base is bad for the bottom line. As for prion based problems, that is a whole other kettle of fish. Prions are about as tough to eradicate as anything on the planet. A self replicating protein that you can't kill because it isn't alive in the first place. Turned loose in our domestic livestock would be a nightmare beyond anything we could comprehend. Think night of the living dead crossed with Elsie the cow. For venison I recommend avoiding contact with the brain and any part of the central nervous system. With those cheerful thoughts I guess it's time for me to get in the kitchen and figure out what I am cooking for dinner tonight.😋 Bob 0 -
Mad cow takes years before infection becomes symptomatic. Pretty hard to remember the date you ate the contaminated hamburger. 0 -
My understanding based on historical data and more recent medical studies is that they determined that mad cow disease (cows being fed blender sluiced dead sick cows) were found to have prions in the brain...
I recall a study of headhunters in Borneo and other locals where cannibalism still occurred - that many who had dined upon long pig also had prions in the brain - and suffered from Jacob Crutchfield disease...
At least that's what I recall - I could be wrong.
I also thought that fish and game in many states offered testing of deer taken during hunting season for CWD - and to my knowledge CWD has not jumped from deer to humans - and there is no proof that eating positive deer will make you sick or kill you - yet...
I know the truth about food safety - what will or will not or might possibly kill folk or make them severely ill - and I know that you cannot catch or prevent 100% of possible problems...
I also realize that many issues will not or probably won't kill folk or make them ill - but I still follow the FDA / USDA recall notices closely as a hobby and some stuff scares me.
Salad ingredients killing folk - and they are often veggies that do not get cooked...
Most of us get food poisoning several times a year or get a cold or illness from tainted food and never realize it - marking it down to other causes.
Oh the stories I could tell you - and we have not even discussed scorpions or brown recluse or black widow or giant centipedes or fruit bats or some other critters...
I will not ever eat blue bunny products again - not ever.
But I hear you - and take your words to heart.
Mike
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"How did they all catch the kung flu, don't they all wear masks and gloves while processing meat? Unless everyone is very careless in the lunchroom, I can't quite figure out how they all managed to get sick.."
#1: NO, they don't wear masks unless they have facial hair (which most of the females don't BTW). The gloves are cut resistant .
#2: Many of these 3rd worlders like to hang together in the locker room, cafeteria, and outside the plant.
#3: The ones I know about live in ghetto like conditions and often several people share living space because they can work different shifts and "hot sheet" the beds.
#4: When one car goes somewhere, it's packed like sardines in a can.0 -
Flying Clay Disk said:...and to my knowledge CWD has not jumped from deer to humans - and there is no proof that eating positive deer will make you sick or kill you - yet...
Anecdotal note...
Good friend of mine (and neighbor) was a taxidermist. At about 47 he developed some Lou Gherig / MS like symptoms in his legs. Doctors never could nail it down, but it got progressively worse, and eventually confined him to a wheelchair. He must have gone for thousands of tests, all inconclusive. Still it got worse. No hereditary family history of any diseases like this.
He aggressively denied it was ever a result of CWD. BUT...he was also a strong proponent of using deer, antelope and elk brains for tanning hides. It got worse to the point where he could barely care for himself anymore, and it probably would have killed him, but he decided to roll out onto his driveway and eat a 9mm bullet instead. I was the first to arrive.
Was it CWD? We'll never know, probably not enough taxidermists out there for a case study, but there were some troubling similarities and connections.
How fast did it progress? I think that would likely be the main indicator. CJD progresses to the point of death in a matter of just a few months.0 -
Also a post mortem examination of the brain would easily determine if it was cwd. BobMr. Perfect said:Flying Clay Disk said:...and to my knowledge CWD has not jumped from deer to humans - and there is no proof that eating positive deer will make you sick or kill you - yet...Anecdotal note...
Good friend of mine (and neighbor) was a taxidermist. At about 47 he developed some Lou Gherig / MS like symptoms in his legs. Doctors never could nail it down, but it got progressively worse, and eventually confined him to a wheelchair. He must have gone for thousands of tests, all inconclusive. Still it got worse. No hereditary family history of any diseases like this.
He aggressively denied it was ever a result of CWD. BUT...he was also a strong proponent of using deer, antelope and elk brains for tanning hides. It got worse to the point where he could barely care for himself anymore, and it probably would have killed him, but he decided to roll out onto his driveway and eat a 9mm bullet instead. I was the first to arrive.
Was it CWD? We'll never know, probably not enough taxidermists out there for a case study, but there were some troubling similarities and connections.
How fast did it progress? I think that would likely be the main indicator. CJD progresses to the point of death in a matter of just a few months.
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Sound like super Lyme's disease???
Mike
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I didn't mean to sound uncaring about your friend. It must have been awful for him and all who cared for him. Usually when someone chooses to end their life in this manner an autopsy is mandatory. Both to determine if it really was suicide and what the medical reasons were that contributed to the suicide. Sometimes in death knowledge can be gained to help the living. Once again sorry for your loss. BobFlying Clay Disk said:BobJudy said:
Also a post mortem examination of the brain would easily determine if it was cwd. BobMr. Perfect said:Flying Clay Disk said:...and to my knowledge CWD has not jumped from deer to humans - and there is no proof that eating positive deer will make you sick or kill you - yet...Anecdotal note...
Good friend of mine (and neighbor) was a taxidermist. At about 47 he developed some Lou Gherig / MS like symptoms in his legs. Doctors never could nail it down, but it got progressively worse, and eventually confined him to a wheelchair. He must have gone for thousands of tests, all inconclusive. Still it got worse. No hereditary family history of any diseases like this.
He aggressively denied it was ever a result of CWD. BUT...he was also a strong proponent of using deer, antelope and elk brains for tanning hides. It got worse to the point where he could barely care for himself anymore, and it probably would have killed him, but he decided to roll out onto his driveway and eat a 9mm bullet instead. I was the first to arrive.
Was it CWD? We'll never know, probably not enough taxidermists out there for a case study, but there were some troubling similarities and connections.
How fast did it progress? I think that would likely be the main indicator. CJD progresses to the point of death in a matter of just a few months.
Ummmm...yeah. Okay.He was my friend...I didn't ask.
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So, do you think there is the most remote chance that a virus that lodges in your lungs may also be attracted to raw meat being processed? Huh? 0 -
He certainly did make the right decision. If I were him I would have done it, probably a few months earlier.Flying Clay Disk said:How fast did it progress?In the span of less than 18-20 months he went from leg tremors and crutches to wheelchair and a catheter. Needed two doubled over velcro straps to keep his legs down on the chair, and damn near took a hydraulic jack to get him in the chair.
He made the right decision.
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kansas has 3 rural western counties that have meat packing plants .....dodge city, liberal and garden city.....lots of illegals , mexes and garden city has a contingent of Somali imported by the govt to work there....last few day case numbers have exploded to 600 in dodge city, 460 in liberal, garden city shows 215 ...state total shows 3738 cases with 125 dead....wichita the biggest city in western 2/3 of state has 364 cases 0 -
There was a story on the local news, Terre Haute, IN, a couple of days ago about somebody brought some cattle from someplace
west of here to a local, but small, meat packaging plant because the nearby plants were closed down. To make a living you have to sell your product.0 -
update yesterday....dodge city 675....liberal 500.... garden city 317....wichita 372......getting close to governors open date of May 3......just in time to celebrate CInco De Mayo..????? si muy bueno 0
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