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Could a CPAP / BIpap work as as Respirator / Ventilator

hoosier
Wondering if a CPAP/ BIPAP  could  double as a respirator.  With  Settings on High and  Oxygen hook up??
With all this  talks about Ventilators /  Respirator in short supply.
Just  wondering





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Comments

17 comments

Date Votes
  • KenK/84Bravo

    Great minds think alike. I have been having the same thoughts, and have been wondering the same.

    Better than nothing I would imagine. If it's a last resort as ventilators are unavailable what, would it hurt.

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  • hoosier
    Mine is a Bi-Pap and  forces air in and  allows me to  breath out  easier.  I've  got the  codes  to change the settings,  if need be.
    Got a  Oxygen  condenser at a  garage sale for  next to nothing (yes it  works).   So If it  comes down to it ????
    Have a couple of  extra Cpaps too.
    I'm  staying Open. Letting one customer in at a time and taking precautions.


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  • ruger41

    Been wondering the same as I use a bi pap

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  • serf
    Brings back memories of my cousin laying in an ‘Iron Lung’ in the 50’s re Polio,,,,,
      I can remember the scare back then about Polo .The March of Dimes came into being to eradicate this monster.Turn your porch light on for The march of dimes. And dimes had real silver in them back in the day too.
                                                          serf

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  • grdad45
    serf said:
    Brings back memories of my cousin laying in an ‘Iron Lung’ in the 50’s re Polio,,,,,
      I can remember the scare back then about Polo .The March of Dimes came into being to eradicate this monster.Turn your porch light on for The march of dimes. And dimes had real silver in them back in the day too.
                                                          serf

    I am a polio survivor. Luckily it was a mild case. I remember being in the polio ward at the hospital when a boy in an "iron lung" passed away during the night. I was 6 years old, and scared as hell, had nightmares for a long time after that. 
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  • KenK/84Bravo

    Interestingly enough, shortly after posting to this thread, I received an E-mail from Cpap.com in regards to the Corin19 virus. They were notifying us that their store front FTF has closed for an undetermined amount of time. They further went on to state that their warehouse staff, were screened prior to entry every morning, and that they were wearing face masks and rubber gloves when packing orders and handling product.

    FYI.

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  • mogley98
    Tesla says he is going to make them, some firm in Italy was making valves on a 3d Printer, GE is ramping up to make them won't take long like America made tanks and airplanes Rosey the riveters might be making Vents
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  • bambihunter
    I have been planning on converting an old bi-pap to a poor mans PAPR system (powered air purifying respirator). Currently when I run our mower pulled lawn vac every year, it blows so much dust and junk in the air that I hack a lung for days and cry red tears from the red clay dirt in my eyes. This won't be something OSHA would approve. I don't have grand illusions that this is purely safe and it removes everything. But I think it will greatly diminish the issues with doing this chore each year. The plan is use the bi-pap for the air, plugged into a 12v power supply on the lawn tractor. It will sit inside a box housing an automotive filter and pump the (somewhat) filtered air to the mask something akin to a gas mask, with vents above the glass blowing down to prevent fogging. After I came up with the idea, I have since seen others scab together something similar. I am sure the get-up will give the neighbors and wife something to talk about. But, until they get out there and do it for me, I need to try something.
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  • mohawk600
    I'd like to know how that works for you.........as far as a ventilator..............no....... Ventilators have an intubated tube in the trachea that forcibly ventilates the lungs. With all of the various structures of the pharynx and trachea......that cannot be accomplished without intubation. It would be like trying to force air through a couple of wet pancakes collapsing against each other
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  • SCOUT5
    Ventilators, like most equipment, are made with different functions.  Some have more functions, or modes of operation, than others.   There are still a lot of simple ventilators that may be placed back into service if need be.  I'm sure some of the older models have been sold to other countries that do not have the funds for the newer models we mostly use here in the US.

    A simple answer to the question is most ventilators now can run c-pap or bi-pap modes but bi-pap and c-pap machines can't be used as ventilators.   There is the the caveat in that some bi-pap machines can be used to as a simple low level ventilator, but this would not do the job as well as a ventilator and is not a real substitute.

    Some of these virus patients are going into ARDS (Acute respiratory distress syndrome  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_respiratory_distress_syndrome   ) which can require  different modes of ventilation some machines can't do.   There is no one set mode for all ARDS patients, or any respiratory patient for that matter.   Much more to it than can be typed here.    
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  • SCOUT5
    There are many different types of ventilation devices.  Some simple ventilator modes can be run just using devices powered by the oxygen/air pressure sources.  But again, treating this conditions are much more complicated than that.   What may work in the short term, like during transports, transfers etc.,  will not maintain the patient for the course of treatment needed.  

    Here is an article that explains some modes of ventilation possible.   Keep in mind that within these modes are also a lot of different possible settings and adjustments are made as needed, be that daily, weekly, hourly whatever is needed.  
    https://www.openanesthesia.org/modes_of_mechanical_ventilation/
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  • Warbirds

    I can 3D print the venturi valve that was costing lives in Italy early on. I already have the CAD models.

    Volunteers produce 3D-printed valves for life-saving coronavirus treatments
    The 3D printed valves have saved 10 patients so far.


    At home I could make 15-18 a day.


    There are entire groups popping up leveraging the community of machines to open source these breathing valves, face masks, face shields, pill containers, etc etc.

    The private 3D printing communities in Europe are pumping out 800 face shields a day

    Its amazing really, but it is not without risk, the wrong materials can outgas carcinogens. There are FDA approved materials out there already, available and cheap.

    Revision 2 (CFD-calculated) available:

    * FiO2 = ~33%

    * O2 sup. = 10LPM

    * Air out. = ~63LPM

    2x 25mm O.D. (air suction, patient)

    1x 5mm O.D. (oxygen)

    I could probably run 20 face shields a day similar to the ones in this picture at home as well.


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  • discusdad
    if the aire received into the mask is not being filtered sufficiently to stop the airborned bug,  what good would it be if prevention is the goal?
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  • hoosier

    It's being  done. With B-Pap. Yes a 3 D  printed part may work.

    Dr. Hugh Cassiere, who is the medical director for respiratory therapy services at North Shore University Hospital, described the conversion as a last-ditch option.

    "You have two alternatives: The patient dies or you think of something else," he said. "This is the something else."

    Cassiere and his colleagues at Northwell converted their fleet of Philips Respironics V60 BiPAP machines into respirators by adding 3D-printed adapters so patients can be intubated and particulate air filters.

    "Everything that needs to be done is built into that machine. That's one of the reasons why we put in the press release this particular machine with the pressure control option," Cassiere said.


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  • Brian Redden
    From an old Respiratory Therapist. The modern hospital Bipap (Philips V60) can be used as a ventilator.
    You set the Ipap and epap and a rate. I sell an invasive circuit for intubated patients. It has a built in O2 blender and alarms.
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  • shilowar
    mogley98 said:
    Tesla says he is going to make them, some firm in Italy was making valves on a 3d Printer, GE is ramping up to make them won't take long like America made tanks and airplanes Rosey the riveters might be making Vents
    Imagine that, Tesla seeing another opportunity to get government funds.  I can't help but be skeptical of his motivations.
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  • SCOUT5
    From an old Respiratory Therapist. The modern hospital Bipap (Philips V60) can be used as a ventilator.
    You set the Ipap and epap and a rate. I sell an invasive circuit for intubated patients. It has a built in O2 blender and alarms.
    As I posted above, some BiPap machines can function as a simple ventilator.   The real use for these would be to use them on patients that only need that level of support.   These  are not going to maintain an ARDS patient for any sustained period of time.   Of course once a patient progresses to ARDS some aren't going to be sustained regardless of equipment.   But some will get through it depending on many factors.     
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