FCD, WWII Aerial Battle on 120 History Channel -
Just now. Been watching it for the last hour. (On another hour.) It has been featuring quite a bit of B17 footage and Battle History. Those were some seriously Brave Guys.
-
Crying just now. They just featured a situation, where the Ball Turret Gunner was trapped in his enclosure beneath the aircraft. They could not get him out due to Battle damage. The Plane was so shot up, they had lost all hydraulics and electrical and they could not lower the landing gear. Belly landing crushed their friend.
The whole flying group witnessed it. Devastating.
0 -
That same scenario played out on several occasions I have read about. Very sad ending and some pure horror for those who knew they were about to die.
Remembering an episode of one of Spielberg's "Amazing Stories" where this very thing came up and one of the aircrew was an artist. He drew a cartoon of their plane having a landing gear and it happened just long enough for the emergency landing. They got the guy out and the plane dropped to the ground, smashing the turret to pieces! I know, total malarkey, but seeing a happy ending to what always turned tragic put a smile on my face.0 -
That scenario is shown on the movie "Memphis Belle," also.
0 -
Final quote of the Special.
"The 8th Airforce suffered 26,000 deaths. More than the Marines in the entire course of WWII."
Not the 1st time, I have heard that. Brave Men All. (Crisp Salute.)
0 -
the fixed position belly turrett was a major drawback of the B-17. the B-24 was able to raise the belly turrett up inside the fuselage at will. and had a mechanism to bring it up in case of battle damage. 0 -
KenK/84Bravo said:Final quote of the Special.
"The 8th Airforce suffered 26,000 deaths. More than the Marines in the entire course of WWII."
Not the 1st time, I have heard that. Brave Men All. (Crisp Salute.)
The USMC has the best PR department in the world.0 -
The part of the history that people don't seem to grasp or understand or believe is how many air crew training deaths occurred stateside during the war...
People absolutely refuse to believe the figures - which to be fair were covered up and kept secret for decades.
I still remember as a kid learning to shoot sub machine guns with Korean Bob the Tommy gun artist (WWII and Korean vet Pennsylvania national guard bloody bucket) and listening on rare occasions when he would talk about the wars...
He always said that the second and third worst decisions of his life were to accept the issue of a flamethrower and accept a field promotion to LT...
he said that if you were a medic or Chaplin or junior officer or carried a flame thrower or wore the unit common gear you were a dead man walking...
Two things gave me nightmares as a kid - the movie alien (the original) and hearing Korean Bob talk about the frozen chosen - and he carried a silk handkerchief with the marine corps shoulder patch folded in his pocket (which they were authorized to wear - the only non USMC unit ever to be so honored)
Yes the life expectancy of bomber crews was blow torch on tissue paper short - see how many crews completed 25 missions without being kia.
Mike
0 -
The massive ridiculous air crew training death toll now somewhat agreed upon or generally receiving acceptance amongst the experts is simply stunning - a have read 4 history books in the last few years that talk about it and while I believe it 100% I am caused to wonder why as a well read student of history (my minor is in military history - double major was honors interdisciplinary liberal arts and linguistic drift in English literature) (yes you can make fun of me for that if you want - most of you who know me would have guessed something along those lines) (later received a degree from the USDA in fredericksburg MD for produce inspection and food safety / primus gfs with haccp and sqf III)
I would also advise or direct you guys to check YouTube out for the American cities that were bombed during the war and how many times we accidentally dropped ordnance on Switzerland...
That and the only Mexican military unit to see active combat service with the allies - that one is also somewhat forgotten.
Mike
0 -
Training deaths were huge. Consider: They were trying to train virtually anybody, adept or not. Equipment was rushed to service, working or not. Instructors were assigned at random, qualified or not. Training was performed, weather or not.
Casualty rates were thought to be acceptable, considering that they'd be at least as high or worse after graduation.
0 -
What is now Seymour Johnson Air Force base was in WW 11 a training field for the army air Corp . Local paper has recently done a series of reprints of ww2 news in the area. Training crashes for the base were a frequent occurrence, usually resulting in a death of the student .
0 -
No...
Actually I am having a rare good day with all mental cylinders firing and mental activity sparking despite health issues...
Plus you guys always direct me to some good content and spur research for knowledge sake only...
The tank will run dry soon.
Mike
0 -
Courage is not the absence of fear.For a pilot, it is knowing what lies ahead, and taking off anyway.
0 -
Ken...
Worst mistake I ever made was blowing off college classes and dropping out with no finished degrees and few credits that mattered...
Part of that was the way I grew up and was part of a well read library trip with the family Harvard classics environment...
I cannot ever recall I time in my life were I was not surrounded by leather bound classics and dime store trade science fiction paperbacks and magazines (for a time I was the youngest subscriber to naval proceedings journal - I would read JAMA and heavy metal magazine)
Library book sales and book mobiles and film projector movies in municipal basements (the music man - Danny Kaye)
But it's not normal to have read the Harvard classics by age 12 - much of which is unreadable garbage and much of which children should not read...
So I coasted through school and was not interested in class material cause often I had read it years ago and multiple times...
Instead of buckling down and doing the work and going to class I was bored and arrogant and thought I new more than most and blew off school...
Only later did I go back and finish at night school and community college and through correspondence coursework or summer sessions - cause it haunted me that I had failed so badly to finish what I had started...
My military history degree was correspondence courses from ads in MHQ and naval proceedings or elements of ordnance - was done through Norwich...
I don't often pull out the degrees in conversation.
I guarantee that you more earned the equivalent of a bachelor's degree while in the service - some schools will give you life credits for certain experience and training - my vets especially non coms possess way more technical training and knowledge than most realize...
My father refused to go to OCS or vie for an academy spot and refused to be promoted past staff Sargent...
I consider you and many others my educational equal or better - or I would not respond to many posts.
And like you I consider most of my education self learned - my papers in frames are not worth a cup of coffee in the real world.
I share some things here that I don't elsewhere cause you guys are like Family or cult members or modern fraternal oddfellows...
Mike
0 -
0
-
Thanks for sharing Mike.
I love you Brother. Your strength has been an inspiration to me, (as well as other's here, I am certain.) I try to aquire a better attitude about life through your posts Sir.
0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
15 comments