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Dog training question????

dreher
I have a 5 month old Border Collie pup.  Lola's training has been super easy.  Lola has a "want to please" personality.  Ever so loving, a real sweetheart!!  Lola comes to a voice command, she comes to a finger snap and she comes to the forearm to the chest command and when Lola comes she comes a sprinting.   Lola also has voice and hand commands to sit, down and stay among other training commands.  I have been ever so happy with her.  

Until a few days ago.  I take Lola and 5 year old Bela outside and whack the tennis ball for them until both dogs are panting heavily.  Then we go inside and when they have cooled down they get their supper.  It has been only lately that Lola can occasionally get the ball.  And there is the problem.  Once she gets the ball, Lola starts a game of keep away from Bela.  Lola wont come to me because she is to busy running around the yard with Bela chasing her.  Bela will come to me if I call her but Lola just keeps tormenting Bela and sprinting around the yard.  There is no way I can catch her as I'm to old and to stoved up to even try.  Once Bela manages to get the ball back, Lola will come to me just fine.  But today it took Bella 20 minutes to get the ball back.  I don't want to get after Lola real hard once I get my hands on her as I'm afraid that at that point she might start not coming at all.   She totally and completely ignores me as long as she has the tennis ball and to say this is driving me crazy would be an understatement!!   Once I put the ball up, she goes back to perfectly behaved.  I don't want to stop running them as both not only love it but they need the exercise.

Any thoughts????   Or do you think Lola might out grow this??
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Comments

15 comments

Date Votes
  • SCOUT5
    I use a shock collar.   That said you have to be careful when using one. 
    3
  • SCOUT5
    She won't out grow it.  It's a game she enjoys and at that time she is getting her reward from the game rather than from you.   She won't pay more attention to you, at that time, until you show her she has to.   As you know her playing keep away from the other dog is fine, her not stopping and coming when commanded is the issue.
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  • Mr. Perfect
    Aside from the shock collar, which I highly recommend, the only other alternative is to simply end the game. you can call the other dog inside and leave Lola outside begging for attention for a spell, or better, have ample treats for the dog that comes first.  If you go the treats route, you should be sure to do this sort of training when both dogs are very hungry.
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  • jimdeere
    I would never use a shock collar on a Border Collie. 
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  • Locust Fork
    Maybe keep one on a leash for a bit, give the other some one on one time and then let them both play 
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  • Merlinnv12
    jimdeere said:
    I would never use a shock collar on a Border Collie. 
         Why not? They work well on my kids!
    6
  • SCOUT5
    jimdeere said:
    I would never use a shock collar on a Border Collie. 
    I admit to not having trained any pure breed Border Collies.   I have trained a lot of dogs, just not that breed.   Is there a specific reason you wouldn't use a collar on one?
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  • mark christian
    SCOUT5 said:
     Use a shock collar.   That said you have to be careful when using one. 
    I've been trying to convince GBHQ to require forum members wear one, but despite my assurance that I'd be careful in the application, they seem overly concerned about liability. Maybe next year ;)
    3
  • JimmyJack
    A good collar can be adjusted,  Usually after a properly used zap a dog will react to the warning beep and may never have to be shocked again.  I taped D flashlite batteries on an old collar and the dogs thought it was the training collar and it works like a charm. As bright as a Border Collie is,  I bet it would mind in no time. A collar can be a good training tool if you use it properly.
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  • discusdad
    common problem.  thats why you don't release 2 dogs for 1 duck...its competition.  the young'in has learned she can turn sharper the the older can to keep the ball in her possession.  you can't train that out of her.  leash on dog if you want to toss the ball. OR   toss 2 balls at the same time....me?  leash 1 toss 1
    3
  • SCOUT5
    The issue, as I understand it, is the dog isn't coming when commanded and this occurs when the dog is involved in a game of keep away from the other dog.  You aren't interested in training the dogs to honer another dogs retrieve, like may be needed in  hunting dogs.   You simply want the dog to come to you when called, what ever it's doing.   The keep away game is fun for the dogs and provides activity, you just need to stop it when you need/want to.   You don't have the legs to run the dog down and discipline her to get her attention. 

    From your description of the dog she wants to please and learns fast.  I doubt you would have to use the collar much.   She  needs to know you can reach out and discipline her,  you are just getting her attention.   All you really need to do is affirm to her that no matter what is going on she has to listen to you.   Running one dog and then the other will not be as much fun for both dogs and will take you twice as long for the exercise as running both dogs at the same time.  
     
    3
  • randomnut

    First, there's no point in continuing to give a command that the dog is ignoring. Until a dog is dead broke, it can also cause problems running the with a broke dog.

    I would think the easiest solution is an e collar, but only after you learn how to use it, and collar condition the dog. Definitely don't just buy one, throw it on, and start using it.

    Improper use can ruin a dog, while proper use makes training easier on the dog and the trainer.

    I would disagree with FCD on the tone before correction issue, and giving the dog a second to react before correction. My collars have tone in them, which I use for recall. IMO, giving the dog a tone or a second to react before correction teaches the dog that you will tone them when you want their attention. The voice command or hand signal response should be immediate.

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  • dcon12
    randomnut said:I would disagree with FCD on the tone before correction issue,
    There is a button for that! Don
    6
  • Mercury
    This is probably an overly-simplistic solution, but it works with our 3 German Shepherds: Each dog has its own ball/toy. And the others don't touch a toy that isn't theirs.

    Works for us, and GSD are CRAZY for chasing balls.


    Merc
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  • yonson
    Trying to teach dogs (and horses) requires some basics:  you should burn off excess energy first - with a walk or run, otherwise the energy gets in the way of their attention span.  Most important with young animals.  You don't reason with them, but claim authority as Alpha member.  You must provide leadership as they are looking for it - in its absence they feel compelled to take over.  Anything desired to be taught must be enforced by the Alpha member - you.  Once they accept your claim as Alpha, it should get easier.  Just for starters.
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