Speculation on reparations.
Obviously, the case for reparations rests partially on the wrong committed to enslaved persons.
However, it is also claimed that this country profited heavily from slavery and is partially built upon the profits of slavery, which would mean we owed more.
The amount of net profit might have been quite low because the planters might have had a hard time borrowing money to plant every year because of high interest and bad credit.
Their credit rating must have been low because slavery was being banned all over the world and banks saw there was a high chance any day now, they could lose their ability to make the money back by using free labor.
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Perhaps we should find out who loaned money to the plantations and hit them up for a share of reparations?
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IMO we are owed reparations. I wake up every morning and thank God I was born here, but then I have seen the real bad places in this mean old world and most of them were in Africa. If they had any sense they would kiss the ground and praise God their ancestors were enslaved.
BTW My ancestors were debtors and brought over as indentured servants with Oglethorpe in 1730, they were "given" to the Cherokee Indians in GA and were indentured for 5 years. Some got out early by joining the militia and fighting the Spanish.
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There were many Company Towns in the coal belt where one was paid in scrip that just covered what it took to survive.
If one links reparations to value of labor, does one have to factor in the costs of room and board?
Just curious.
Don
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Don McManus: 31516401777691/comments/31516411658907
There were many Company Towns in the coal belt where one was paid in scrip that just covered what it took to survive.
If one links reparations to value of labor, does one have to factor in the costs of room and board?
Just curious.
Don
My FIL and many of my own family lived in " coal towns " paid in script or you could get cash but it was just a very low % of what the company money you would receive . then the company stores charged more than the town stores also just a continuing cycle
my departed MIL told me stories of her and others going to the company store to get food or what ever the store clerk would call the mine and see how much "credit " the fellow had made for the day before giving out any thing
get hurt and laid up very long you were gone and some one else would be taking over your company owned shack you no longer were making money for the company
my departed FIL worked double shifts many times trying to feed the family and I know many more did the same go in before daylight and home after dark and never see the daylight for weeks on end
it was truly just one notch above slavery in may ways you were owned by the company ( like the old song I owe my soul to the company store )
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Then again, maybe for the most part they were as profitable as you would think.
Maybe a secret plot in the North paid for a winning war effort by smuggling out the slaves and accepting bribes from Africans to emigrate.
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You are probably correct on this one, SS. All the wealthy slaves bribed their way north, but the evil northerners took every last penny and left them destitute upon arrival. Many parallels with the traffic across our current southern border.
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Don McManus: 31516401777691/comments/31516411753755
You are probably correct on this one, SS. All the wealthy slaves bribed their way north, but the evil northerners took every last penny and left them destitute upon arrival. Many parallels with the traffic across our current southern border.
Wealthy slaves??? What???
Opportunistic profiteers from among the Union soldiers guarding Port Royal, or on Sherman's march to the Sea, or guarding the freedmens' colonies on the Georgia coast after the war may have sold the freedmen in their care to South America or the Caribbean.
People from Africa (who were not slaves) may have bribed the supposed Union Army slave sellers or other opportunistic profiteers in order to emigrate in their place.
The US was a comparatively wealthier country than African countries even then, and some people from Africa may have been dispossessed or displaced by European colonization, inter-African warfare, natural disasters, disease, drought, famine, etc. It may be that many Africans would have preferred to stay in their homeland, but it just cannot be that absolutely none of them wouldn't pay to try to live in the US.
There were probably also freedmen in the Caribbean and South America who may have wanted to try to emigrate to a wealthy nation. Parts of those places were emancipated by this time.
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Perhaps part of the intention behind the Emancipation Proclamation was to prevent the South from replenishing its war treasury by selling its slaves.
It only applied to "areas controlled by the Confederacy" and not to slaves secretly smuggled out by profiteers.
The South banned the importation of slaves in their Constitution but they could have intended to change it as needed. In fact, it could have been intended as a smokescreen. They could have intended all along to sell some of their slaves if money ran low.
Former slaves who were liberated by Sherman's march or showed up at Port Royal would have been hungry and uneducated, so they might have been exploitable.
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From a New York Times article regarding 23andme:
"The report, which included more than 50,000 people, 30,000 of them with African ancestry, agrees with the historical record about where people were taken from in Africa, and where they were enslaved in the Americas. But it also found some surprises.
For example, the DNA of participants from the United States showed a significant amount of Nigerian ancestry — far more than expected based on the historical records of ships carrying enslaved people directly to the United States from Nigeria."
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I am self identifying as a black and a slave descendent , just send my check asap
if every one else can decide what gender race or combination they are so can I
if its good for some then all can be counted in
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Maybe they was et.
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I am white in color but i must be black, I love fried chicken and water mellon. Got a gap between my two front teeth if that means anything.
My wife's great great grand mother was full Cherokee Indian. My son and his girl friend were looking at family pictures, his G G G grandmother turns out is his girl friend's G G G grandmother. Thought she was going to pass out.
FYI I like people of all colors and walks of life but some of the things they say and do riles me up to the fullest.
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Oops, all thumbs
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I changed my stance on reparations once i filled out a form 4 today at my local gun shop...
They asked what race to I IDENTIFY with - I checked them all as i identify with all of them...
I am IN LINE for Reparations!
wtf? can those reparation people be serious ??? and why would any adult or political party even tolerate such stupidity... ahh votes and divisiveness..
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Keith, they are serious as all get out.
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I don’t entertain suppositions. Life is vexing enough as it is.
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@...: 31516401777691/comments/31516382653083
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11272081#Comment_11272081
Wealthy slaves??? What???
Opportunistic profiteers from among the Union soldiers guarding Port Royal, or on Sherman's march to the Sea, or guarding the freedmens' colonies on the Georgia coast after the war may have sold the freedmen in their care to South America or the Caribbean.
People from Africa (who were not slaves) may have bribed the supposed Union Army slave sellers or other opportunistic profiteers in order to emigrate in their place.
The US was a comparatively wealthier country than African countries even then, and some people from Africa may have been dispossessed or displaced by European colonization, inter-African warfare, natural disasters, disease, drought, famine, etc. It may be that many Africans would have preferred to stay in their homeland, but it just cannot be that absolutely none of them wouldn't pay to try to live in the US.
There were probably also freedmen in the Caribbean and South America who may have wanted to try to emigrate to a wealthy nation. Parts of those places were emancipated by this time.
Throughout the Americas, slaves were employed in their off hours for money. Many earned enough to buy their freedom. While this was easier in areas with a majority minority free population, with a quarter million free blacks living in the south during the lead up to war, this also occurred in the Southern States of the US. Those that did not buy their freedom used the cash to supplement their diets and living conditions, while no doubt many were saving the money. Wealthy has always been a relative term, and there were no doubt many owners who prohibited the accumulation of money by their slaves.
We are conditioned today to believe that there was no such thing as a good person who owned slaves. There were good people who owned slaves and treated them well.
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Butchdog2: 31516401777691/comments/31516390556059
I am white in color but i must be black, I love fried chicken and water mellon. Got a gap between my two front teeth if that means anything.
My wife's great great grand mother was full Cherokee Indian. My son and his girl friend were looking at family pictures, his G G G grandmother turns out is his girl friend's G G G grandmother. Thought she was going to pass out.
FYI I like people of all colors and walks of life but some of the things they say and do riles me up to the fullest.
that's interesting about your GGG grandmother
I will guess most all Americans have a sorted mixed back ground if they have been in country for a couple hundred years ( or less ) population was a lot less and well reginal mates were a bit more scarce as no one traveled much
My great grand mother was Cherokee on moms side . no details as far as names but was just passed on word of mouth thru the family . my moms side of the family all looked the part . a lot of my cousins could still pull it off black hair a few shades darker than most. as for me and my brothers and sisters having blond hair ( well gray now ) and blue eyes and some what fair skin no way I could pass , my dads side of the family donated most all of it .
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Afrikans made slaves of each other. American Injuns made slaves of other tribes and white folks. Egyptians enslaved the jews. There is a history of slavery on just about every continent.......time to get over it people
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The North wanted the South in the country, obviously, they fought a war to prevent secession. They might have supported the South's interest in not having their country flooded with free people who might potentially be full of hatred and revenge. That might be a potential reason they'd turn a blind eye to the various interests that might want to see the slaves go.
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I finally came up with a reasonable scenario regarding how a few of the freedmen could have turned over. The Africans who captured and sold the US slaves were extremely concerned about the outcome of the Civil war because they feared one day the freedmen might be strong enough to come back and extract revenge. There were many in the US who felt the same way. So they talked to one another behind the scenes. It was decided to move the freedmen to the coast where the Africans would kidnap them in secret raids. Where they wound up is anyone's guess.
As for how more Africans moved in, I think I heard someone say once, "try keeping them out." Especially after a major war with the nation heavily in debt.
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mohawk600: 31516401777691/comments/31516373874203
Afrikans made slaves of each other. American Injuns made slaves of other tribes and white folks. Egyptians enslaved the jews. There is a history of slavery on just about every continent.......time to get over it people
There's a small issue with why they can't expect to get reparations out of West African nations.
It doesn't absolve us here in the United States, but their ancestors might have known and accepted the deal in their home countries.
They might have only been able to borrow money to plant their own fields in their home countries because of the understanding that they might be sold if they got too deeply into debt. So they wouldn't have come into existence if they hadn't been part of the system.
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What about the asians that built the railroads?
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select-fire: 31516401777691/comments/31516374161307
What about the asians that built the railroads?
Too smart for their own good? They now have have no bell curve allowances on entrance exams.I heard they are too smart now.
serf
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Wondrous apparitions, provided by magicians...
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mohawk600: 31516401777691/comments/31516373874203
Afrikans made slaves of each other. American Injuns made slaves of other tribes and white folks. Egyptians enslaved the jews. There is a history of slavery on just about every continent.......time to get over it people
Maybe that's why people sometimes find they're related to a bunch of European peoples when they thought they were part Native American.
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The only reparations I will endorse must come from CHINA. Payable to all of the planet earth!
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Of course I had missed the most obvious reason there could have been turnover just after the Civil war.
Africans would have been fleeing from places with slavery to a country that had just outlawed it.
State and local governments in the South would have been too disorganized to stop them and some of their citizens might have found a way to profit from it such as by helping Africans get past occupying Union forces in exchange for money. They needed it to rebuild the devastated South.
The idea seems plausible enough to need research.
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Dead in water now a global oil crisis and govts have a reason to raise prices
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