Scope mounting tools - T10, T15 breaking
Short version:
What brand DRIVER BIT do you use for mounting bases and scopes?
Long version:
I have an inch/pound torque screwdriver and socket driver. I have tried DEWALT IMPACT rated T drivers and they ALL fail under 28 pounds. I have tried MAKITA IMPACT rated T drivers and they fails just as badly.
My RUGER American 30-06 came with a Picatinny scope base factory installed. It came loose. It uses a T-10 .. YES - T-TEN driver. I attempted to re-install it with Loctite BLUE and snapped the heads of the DEWALT drivers in the process with the wrench set at 60in/lb so I do not know how much pressure they received before breaking.
After shooting the gun one last time with poor results I have decided to start over. Removing the screws broke more bits from DEWALT and MAKITA. I then tried a NEW bit by GRK and it seems to be holding up so far. No twists ... yet.
What brand BIT do you use?
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I have a Wheeler set that is for gun work not hardware bits.
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You sure you are using inch pound torque and not foot pound?
Oh and if you are torquing to 60 inch pounds there is your trouble!
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I have never gone more than 30 in/lbs for bases and never had a problem. Bob
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Absolute max should be 40, 25 to 30 is perfect.
More to installing a scope than just screwing things together.
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Hey Butchdog2 ... Why is that the problem when the scope mfrs and rifle mfrs ALL say 60-62 inch/pounds of torque mounting the base to the rifle? You care to expand on that?
Please re-read my post ... INCH POUNDS.
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Why so tight?
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Best go to the Leupold site and confirm your 60 inch pound.
You said you had a inch pound screw driver
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Bases, 25 to 35 inch pounds there abouts
Rings, 15 to 30
Big screw that holds rings to base, 40 +-
Mileage will vary as each manufacture might have little different setting
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I don't need to go back to Leupold as they already stated 60. Ruger stated 62. I have the emails.
By the way, I said "I have an inch/pound torque screwdriver and socket driver." Apparently you would rather argue than help.
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Here's an article from Shooting Times:
Two Common Scope-Mounting Mistakes
Two Common Scope-Mounting MistakesThe article states, "On just about all of our bases, the screws only require 20 to 25 inch-pounds of pressure," Turner said. "The rings' screws get even less--we recommend 17 inch-pounds." - David Turner, president of Talley Manufacturing
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Nort argueing. Just making sure.
Looking at a set of brand new in the pack, Leupold rings right now. Rings with 8-24 threads, 28 inch pounds,
Bases have two thread sizes, 22 inch pounds for 6-48 and 28 inch pounds for 8-40 screws.
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Picatinny rail to receiver, 35+-.
Screw size determines the torque rating more than anything.
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jb4lcm: 31514366484507/comments/31514360116251
Hey Butchdog2 ... Why is that the problem when the scope mfrs and rifle mfrs ALL say 60-62 inch/pounds of torque mounting the base to the rifle? You care to expand on that?
Please re-read my post ... INCH POUNDS.
The only reference to anything over 25 inch pounds that I found is that Nightforce, Spuhr, and Badger recommend 68, 45, and 65 respectively for torquing the crossbolts that hold the rings to the base.
Here's an interesting article.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/03/22/rifle-screw-torque-settings-specifications/
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I think Project Farm on youtube just did a comparison test to find the strongest bit type. It would be one of his recent videos.
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I use wheeler gunsmith driver sets. You can review them at Midway site. Think one is 43 pieces and the other is around 80 pcs. The 80 piece set is on sale right now for like $67 with free shipping on stuff over $49. What is strange is the 72 pc set is same price??????? at this link
Wheeler gunsmith screwdrivers - MidwayUSA
The two driver handles in the larger piece set really fits the hand good and has a slight rubbery soft fit and you CAN FEEL when tightening the friction of the screw being driven and when it gets right. The Wheeler has such a nice feel when tightening that A torque screwdriver is not really needed other than to maybe just check. If you know what you are doing
and have a good gunsmith set of drivers you do not need a torque screwdriver and are better off not using one, go by feel.
The wheeler drivers are really tough and I have yet to break any or have them go bad, but I do not mis-treat my tools.
I had a guy come to me awhile back and he had some HEX allen head base screws that had been rounded off and asked if I could get them out. He had used a cheap China hex wrench and rounded the screw heads and the wrench.
The wheeler confimed that they were rounded too much for a allen wrench.
I placed the rifle in a gun vise, took a Wheeler torx driver and gently tapped the wheeler torx driver head into place inside the allen screws and could feel by tapping when the torx head driver seated.
All the screws came out and the torx driver still good. The slight tapping also helped vibrate the screw threads for removal.
You will find that lots of things such as removing and tightening things such as screws/bolts/nuts requires a feel instead of a torque wrench and muscle.
Experience is sometimes all I have to offer.
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Agree, Neo. Cross bolt holding the ring to base is the biggie and they even vary from 35 to 60 inch pounds.
Getting everything lapped and set up is the key to success. A very small dab of blue Locktite just keeps everything as it should be.
Some base and ring makers even put the dab of blue "stuff" on them from the factory.
Yes tapping will help loosen a tight screw, think impact wrench.
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Thanks okie473 ... I appreciate the candid response, but I'm afraid I don't have that kind of experience. So I've been following the manufacturer's instructions and buying the torque drivers - both screwdriver and wrench.
Leupold says 28 pounds on the rings-to-scope. Night Force says 60 pounds base to rifle. Ruger is sending me a new stock AND new picatinny base with screws with the following message:
"Thank you for contacting Ruger Customer Service.
Your Customer Service Issue # is xxxxxxxx
John,
Your order # for the replacement stock and scope base is xxxxxxx. The torque for the scope base is 62-in. lbs."
I guess this is more artform than science. Same with the 9" grouping at 100 yards with this 30-06.
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I use Milwaukee impact bits with good results, just keep it very straight.
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I've mounted roughly 10,000 scopes in my time. I don't use a torque wrench. I don't get returns either.
One time a guy came in with a wheeler torque wrench, wanted to mount his own scope on a Browning BAR I had for sale....he stripped out one of the mounting holes on the receiver. Decided he didn't want the gun anymore, left it to be my problem.
I usually use a craftsman t15 and t10, I replace them every year or so. Back when Rugers were more popular I broke a couple t10s a year but now days use mostly Leupold mounts and they are t15. They hold up a little better.
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You say the 30;06 Ruger is shooting 9 inch groups at 100 yards.
Seen a tang safety Ruger 06 awhile back that a guy brought me to check that was shooting really wild groups and every once in awhile would loose a bullet on a big target at 65 yards. Bullet would not even hit the target?? Thought maybe at first the bullet had went into another bullet hole, so put up a big target and confirmed the bullet had completely missed the target and went way wild.
Long story short the barrel was severely copper fouled. Took over week to remove all the copper fouling by reading the blue/green patches as indicators of cu fouling and gun shot excellent groups at 100 yards with reloads afterwards, could hardly believe how the deer rifle groups came around good.
I have seen smooth bore shotguns with slugs shoot better groups than this gun with the fouled bore was producing.
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There's a reason impact sockets and bits don't break/shatter during heavy impact use which is also the reason one shouldn't use impact rated tools for straight torque applications.
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I have a pretty good Wheeler set and 2 complete sets of of the smaller Chapman sets.
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I use Brownell's bits.
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armilite: 31514366484507/comments/31514384798875
I have a pretty good Wheeler set and 2 complete sets of of the smaller Chapman sets.
I cannot recommend Chapman drivers for gunsmith work. Mine seem too brittle and the drivers chips easy.
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The new Ruger stock arrived today. Took it outa the box - excited to get it assembled ... only to find they sent the wrong stock - a short action stock!
Okie - I did as you suggested and left some hoppes 9 in the barrel overnight - came out blue green. cleaned it again - let it set - more blue green. Scrubbed the bore again tonight and wetted it out with more hoppes 9 - we'll see what the mornin brings.
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