Morals and Ethics
A renter is just finishing up a one year lease. In forty years of being a landlord this one is the worst.
In Commie Kalifornia renters can stay for free until you evict them, which can take up to 6 months.
Renter says they are moving out (end of lease).
So I get an email from the property management company of the place they are moving to asking 4 questions:
- How long have they lived there and have they given proper notice?
- Was their rent paid on time? How much? Any lates? Any NSFs?
- Any complaints?
- If qualified would you rent to them again?
So given their history:
- Would you respond honestly and perhaps prolong my agony for at least 6 more months.
- Lie like a rug to the prospective property managers to ensure the tenants departure.
- Wait till after they move out and then answer the property manager questions honestly.
I await your opinions and discussion.
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They'll know if you're lying. Then they might give the tenant more slack. I would try keep a positive attitude and tell the truth. If you really really have a hardship you didn't know about when you accepted a renter and should have known these rules, let the authorities know.
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So how soon is their departure date? I would do option 3 if their departure is soon. Maybe 3-4 weeks, if it's much longer that that, I would bite the bullet and do option 1.
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Tough situation when a new Landlord calls and ask about a tenant who you still have. I tell them the truth. How ever in your case make sure you have that confidential disclosure in the email so if the Tenant comes back to you with a complaint you told a new property manager the truth.. you go after that manager for disclosure if the tenant decides to stay and not pay rents. As a Landlord I cannot save the world and you don't blame yourself for their hardship. Just remember you are helping out the next tenant. OR.... sometimes I just tell the next Landlord...You know I cannot discuss their information... Privacy Act.
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I was asked once by the boss to give a glowing reference on a employee who was looking for a new job because it would help get rid of them and we didn't want them any more.
Tough position to be in as a landlord especially with the moratorium on evictions, you know what you have to do it just isn't in line with what you want to do!
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I had a problem employee that bid a job far, far away (because of me?).
The gaining supervisor called me, the losing supervisor, and asked about the employee.
I told the truth.
The supervisor selected the guy anyway!
The employee was quite the BS'er and I'm sure he "warned" the gaining sup about me.
I'm sure your renters have already prepped the gaining Landlord about all the misunderstandings and how ignorant the losing landlord was about their plight.
Be honest and hope the next time you call for a reference, that guy will be honest as well.
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I would not answer at all.
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I wouldn't answer their questions...especially not in writing. The goal: the tenants move out on time without damaging the property...while you maintain the moral high ground.
One caveat: If the new property manager won't rent to them without your input, I would provide only a very short and completely factual response (that I could back up with documentation)...with the above stated goals.
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Send them this link and let them do their own self check. I very very seldom use a former landlords word good or bad. I use my own sources. I will tell the tenant if they speak religion how good they are ect... I don't care if you are the Pope.. I check everyone equally.
The Renter's Guide to Tenant Privacy Rights | Privacy Rights Clearinghouse
Posted: Jul 01 2013 | Revised: Mar 21 20170 -
I agree with not answering at all.
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HPD: Eminent.
Select: A 6 month stay with no income will bankrupt me. Not gonna happen. You 2nd option sounds good.
Scooter: That is my current thought, and greatest fear.
Not answer at all is an option if they will process the rent application without it.
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Yep.
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We inherited a house from my in-laws years ago. Had it sold and the guy backed out at the closing. Then we made the mistake of renting it out to my mother and her husband. That was a hard lesson to learn. Cured me from wanting to rent anything again. 😣
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Honesty is always the best policy.
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I had a buddy that owned several rental houses.If he had problems getting someone out of a property,he would offer to give the a thousand dollars if they would be out by such and such a date.They were always out,but never got the money.
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It's all in the lease articles. I have a 4 page "Rider" that is very explicit as to exactly what happens if-if-if. If they won't agree to the lease as written they don't get the opportunity to be one of my tenants! I've found out over many years it's way too easy to let them in but VERY difficult to evict. I also am real tough for the first 3-4 months about receiving the checks by the first (one of the articles calls for a $25 a day penalty for late checks). Sets a precedence that really helps keep all in line over he length of he lease. I also have a "pre-lease" form I require that requests their financial data and a copy of their drivers lis.
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asop: 31514356926107/comments/31514346038811
It's all in the lease articles. I have a 4 page "Rider" that is very explicit as to exactly what happens if-if-if. If they won't agree to the lease as written they don't get the opportunity to be one of my tenants! I've found out over many years it's way too easy to let them in but VERY difficult to evict. I also am real tough for the first 3-4 months about receiving the checks by the first (one of the articles calls for a $25 a day penalty for late checks). Sets a precedence that really helps keep all in line over he length of he lease. I also have a "pre-lease" form I require that requests their financial data and a copy of their drivers lis.
I have a 8 page lease with these tenants. The only paragraph they haven't broken is the first paragraph where the parties to the lease are named.
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buddyb: 31514356926107/comments/31514357747995
I had a buddy that owned several rental houses.If he had problems getting someone out of a property,he would offer to give the a thousand dollars if they would be out by such and such a date.They were always out,but never got the money.
LOVE IT!!!!
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Rule no 1. Never do a lease. Leases are for terms of the agreement usually 6 months or 1 yr. A tenant cannot be evicted most likely unless they breach the agreement by doing something they are not suppose to do. They will go to court and tell the Judge it won't happen again. Then it does. I call these folks the tenants from ****.
Month to Month agreements rid this problem. IF the Tenant fails to pay rent or causes any headaches to the Landlord the solution is simple . Give them a 30 day notice to vacate the premise when rent is collected. No reason is needed in SC. and none is explained in court if they don't leave. Each month they pay the month to month agreement is renewed.
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You are the owner of the property.........file permits for plumbing and electric that needs to be improved and force them out.
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There has been a moratorium on any eviction in the Commie Kalif since early last year.
Couldn't evict even if they committed mass murder.
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select-fire: 31514356926107/comments/31514346172955
Rule no 1. Never do a lease. Leases are for terms of the agreement usually 6 months or 1 yr. A tenant cannot be evicted most likely unless they breach the agreement by doing something they are not suppose to do. They will go to court and tell the Judge it won't happen again. Then it does. I call these folks the tenants from ****.
Month to Month agreements rid this problem. IF the Tenant fails to pay rent or causes any headaches to the Landlord the solution is simple . Give them a 30 day notice to vacate the premise when rent is collected. No reason is needed in SC. and none is explained in court if they don't leave. Each month they pay the month to month agreement is renewed.
Select is 100% correct. I DO NOT do leases. Month to month ONLY!
I've only had to kick two tenants out in 20+ years, because I'm super picky!
I tell people FLAT OUT at the interview "If you are loud, don't pay your rent on time, or are a problem tenant, NOW is the time to tell me, to save us all grief" TWICE I've had people go "Uh...ok, never mind!"
Merc
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Ok. Here is how it went down.
I did not respond to the management company except to state: "I do not release any information to anyone about past or current tenants".
This got the expected response from both the management company, and the Tenants from Hell. Management company promising to send me release forms (not going to go down that rabbit hole) and Tenants from Hell saying I was holding their approval for the new place.
So lease expires and T from H just stay put. But they made one mistake: They closed their account with the water district. Around here the water district (water supplier) is nasty.
They will make the property owner sign a document that says the property owner will pay the water bill if the renter skips out on the bill. Since they closed their account they made that document void, and they cannot re-open that account without a new owner authorization.
So the water was turned off and locked. They had no water and didn't notify me or ask for a new waiver. I only found out by calling the water district and asking about the account.
So after 5 days of no water they started moving out. And today they signed a Vacate Premises document and gave me keys.
Yahoo! "Free at last, free at last from the Tenants from Hell" to paraphrase.
Thanks for all the advise and ideas. I will sell this place and never, ever be a landlord again.
Never ever be a landlord in the Commie State of Kalif.
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Alpine quote...
I will sell this place and never, ever be a landlord again.
end quote
I did, and I won't be.
When the laws changed, and the tenants have more rights than the landlord, and MANY of them know how to use those laws to stay in your place for free. Then when you finally DO get them out, the place costs more than a years worth of rent to repair it.
NOT ALL TENANTS ARE LIKE THAT. I had some GREAT ones.
But it doesn't take many bad ones to change your perspective on whether it is worth it or not.
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I am so glad it worked out for you.
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My first California rental started in the early 70s. It did not take me long to learn to request information from the landlord previous to the landlord they were currently renting from.
If you receive another request for information from the next prospective landlord, question #4 is safe to answer but I would not answer any other questions.
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Yes, #4 could be answered in a manner so obfuscated it would rendered un-usable. The T from H, are out and any request from now on will be ignored.
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Sounds like a bad situation worked out the best it could. Glad to see you are done with it.
BTW there are no morals and ethics when somebody's porking you. It's like going into a gunfight, win any way you can.
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Glad it resolved OK for you. In a business environment where government regulations have made doing business onerous for one party in a contract, the party given the burden needs to raise the price to make that burden worth the headache. Other landlords are adjusting prices to deal with the headache bad actors (protected by bad laws) create; make sure your prices match the market's. Insurance companies have been doing this for decades; we all pay the price and they deal with the headaches as "just part of the business."
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competentone: 31514356926107/comments/31514358648475
Glad it resolved OK for you. In a business environment where government regulations have made doing business onerous for one party in a contract, the party given the burden needs to raise the price to make that burden worth the headache. Other landlords are adjusting prices to deal with the headache bad actors (protected by bad laws) create; make sure your prices match the market's. Insurance companies have been doing this for decades; we all pay the price and they deal with the headaches as "just part of the business."
I qualify Tenants by Risk. Just like a Bank who wants to loan money. If it is Risky it will cost more..higher interest. Not my fault the folks had bad choices . So a quick cure.. if they want the place and have bad credit, evictions, light criminal backgrounds the price is high. Rent is the same as anyone else..But the security deposit will be REAL HIGH.... No limits in SC. My Risk taking them will be very costly.
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Years ago had a part time job as a maintenance man for a landlord who had 150 units. Saw up front what a living hell he endured. Despised by utility companies, tenants, and local government merely for trying to make a buck. Any disputes, he was always the bad guy. NO WAY.
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