Home fire suppression systems
LSD's thread on tactical retreat prompted me to share some thoughts on this subject and solicit input from you smart GD dwellers.
Castle doctrine allows you to retreat into your home and defend it. Most states recognize this right, including some of the commie ones in this nation. Not to belabor the point, but regardless of castle doctrine recognition, self preservation instincts are likely to kick in, and folks are going to protect their home, especially if they feel their life is at stake.
Anyway, this leads me to think about the tactical aspects of the retreat. Given the mob mentality of some of the adversaries to conservative viewpoints and frankly just the mob mentality in general, one could easily be put into a situation where they are defending themselves and their home against multiple assailants. Heck one could even consider tactical retreat being necessary to defend from jack booted government officials.
In any multiple assailant scenario, the potential to be inside your domicile and defending it leads to the imminent possibility the assailants will attempt to simply set fire to your home, or otherwise even just set it afire with flash-bangs and tear gas ( Waco and the MOVE incident in Philadelphia come to mind) to flush you out into their trap or just leave you homeless and destitute at the very least rather than engage you in some gun battle.
Tactically, it makes sense to prepare for that and especially if you have loved ones in the home you want to protect even if you devalue your own life to the point of not care about surviving such a scenario, so a home fire suppression systems seems like a good idea.
I have looked into home fire suppression systems, for reasons OTHER than the above as well... frankly I don't understand why residential fire suppression systems aren't mandated by code in more jurisdictions just to protect them from unintentional fires, but that is another thread I guess. The secondary point here is accidents happen. And with the resources like fire departments becoming overburdened and underfunded fending for yourself seems pretty practical.
Heck, even Bob Vila thinks they're a good idea:
All You Need to Know About Residential Fire Sprinkler Systems
Though fire sprinkler systems save lives, few homeowners choose to include this life-saving investment in their renovations and new construction projects.
Now, retrofitting your home with a sprinkler system could be pretty expensive as a best case scenario and downright unsightly AND costly in a worst case. So, baring the addition of that, what are some options? Equipping your home with quick connects and hoses? Tactical fire extinguishers in each room? How do you protect the outside if you are inside? Does anyone know businesses (or have a business) that does this sort of installation?
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isnt that what Janet Reno did in Waco.
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varian: 30501206279835/comments/30501239301147
isnt that what Janet Reno did in Waco.
Not only yes, but I mentioned Waco.
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You use the word retreat and tactical retreat. If someone or a mob is attacking my home, you go on the offensive and take the battle to them. Never retreat!
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Forget fire suppression. If folks are trying to burn you out, it’s time for SUPPRESSIVE FIRE.
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Oh yeah, I forgot the keyboard Rambos won't need one. I'm not worried about y'all. 🙄
This thread is more for input from the people who understand reality and the need for tactical retreat in certain scenarios AS WELL AS those interested in general home safety fire suppression.
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No desire to be Rambo here. Just talking reality. Modern day houses are not defendable. If a mob wants to burn you out, they’re going to burn you out…unless you can turn them away somehow.
Fire extinguishers around the house is always a good idea. Every installed automated commercial system I have been around was nothing but problems and constant maintenance. Besides, water is just as destructive as fire, and some of those gas ones aren’t safe if you’re occupying the space. In the end, it’s a losing battle, I think.
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Frogdog: 30501206279835/comments/30501206907163
No desire to be Rambo here. Just talking reality. Modern day houses are not defendable. If a mob wants to burn you out, they’re going to burn you out…unless you can turn them away somehow.
Fire extinguishers around the house is always a good idea. Every installed automated commercial system I have been around was nothing but problems and constant maintenance. Besides, water is just as destructive as fire, and some of those gas ones aren’t safe if you’re occupying the space. In the end, it’s a losing battle, I think.
Well, a sprinkler system to put out fires would allow a person to not have to focus on fire suppression and stay in the fight.
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How about home owners insurance to cover the loss. Hell of a lot cheaper than sprinkler system.
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If you were up for installing a sprinkler system, it might be great for day to day and contingency protection, covering interior sections. Don’t you think the house would still burn, though, in a scenario where people are presumably throwing flammables (e.g. gas-filled bottles, etc.) at the outside walls? Materials like vinyl or wood siding would go up quick, and head for the roof. You might find yourself all wet, with the walls and roof burning down around you.
Anyhow, not trying to dissuade you….just thinking it through objectively.
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Frogdog: 30501206279835/comments/30501207102747
If you were up for installing a sprinkler system, it might be great for day to day and contingency protection, covering interior sections. Don’t you think the house would still burn, though, in a scenario where people are presumably throwing flammables (e.g. gas-filled bottles, etc.) at the outside walls? Materials like vinyl or wood siding would go up quick, and head for the roof. You might find yourself all wet, with the walls and roof burning down around you.
Anyhow, not trying to dissuade you….just thinking it through objectively.
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RE: Sprinklers- different type of head for single family house. They are typically mounted on the sidewalls and spray across the room. Easier to retrofit to existing house, not much visual impact. lower water flow. Any professional fire sprinkler contractor can do it- IF YOU HAVE ADEQUATE WATER PRESSURE AND VOLUME. However.........
However- that is covering the interior. You are describing an arson attack to the exterior. Interior sprinklers of limited use in that case. There was a special sprinkler system in the 1930s used to protect the exterior of a building (your neighbor was a matchbook maker)- have not seen a new one in years.
If this is a real concern, would suggest (a) defense in depth- keep the critters at a distance- wall/ fence, landscaping that will keep you at a distance (pyracantha, barberry, holly). (b) limit fuel loading. Masonry rather than frame. Terra cotta tile roofing rather than shingle, etc. Actually a whole area of architecture in design of defensible space. The king called it a moat, you call it a koi pond.
Me? I live in the sticks. 35 acres. Nearest neighbor is not under my elbow. The villagers with torches and pitchforks have to come a long way up my driveway. But being a grumpy old man with 50+ years of work in commercial and military explosives, and licenses for all the really good stuff....... I have other means of securing my homestead.
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I think you'd be better off just building yourself a bunker with outside defensive structures. However, living in a hole in the ground over time could lead to some pretty strange mental conditions.
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Residential fire suppression systems are specifically designed to do one thing: give the occupants time to safely leave the house. The best you can do is get everyone out of the house, & lose only "room & contents"; that's often what happens with a real fire. We're only worried about savings lives. But, if the rest of the house is saved, that's just a bonus.
Commercial systems have heads in every room & in the attic. Residential systems usually omit sprinklers in closets, bathrooms, & the attic. Local codes vary.
Neal
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Residential system can be great, but they must be done right.
Normal residential water supply will not keep up with a working fire,in either pressure or volume.
A working fire can melt the joints of copper pipes rendering the system useless. Temps. in a house will reach 1500 degrees in just 3 minutes.
New wave of plumbing with plastic PEX, in a fire,,,,,,,
Hope this helps
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nmyers: 30501206279835/comments/30501178705691
Residential fire suppression systems are specifically designed to do one thing: give the occupants time to safely leave the house. The best you can do is get everyone out of the house, & lose only "room & contents"; that's often what happens with a real fire. We're only worried about savings lives. But, if the rest of the house is saved, that's just a bonus.
Commercial systems have heads in every room & in the attic. Residential systems usually omit sprinklers in closets, bathrooms, & the attic. Local codes vary.
Neal
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This... Safety
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montanajoe: 30501206279835/comments/30501178816667
Residential system can be great, but they must be done right.
Normal residential water supply will not keep up with a working fire,in either pressure or volume.
A working fire can melt the joints of copper pipes rendering the system useless. Temps. in a house will reach 1500 degrees in just 3 minutes.
New wave of plumbing with plastic PEX, in a fire,,,,,,,
Hope this helps
Indeedy it does. Thanks!
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Best I got is I built with all steel frame 2x6 exterior walls 2x4 steel interior and masonry hardy-board siding, unfortunately couldn't afford the metal roof at the time, looking into replacing that soon.
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I know several who have installed sprinkler systems in their homes and have had them accidently go off. Also from my time in Uncle Sams service where sprinkler systems are in just about every building, experienced the same. Reasons varied from unknown, another from someone hanging a decoration to the sprayer, one from cleaning attic, and also material failure.
Floor, furniture, books, and drywall ended up as collateral damage. Make sure insurance covers false activations.
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chiefr: 30501206279835/comments/30501179081883
I know several who have installed sprinkler systems in their homes and have had them accidently go off. Also from my time in Uncle Sams service where sprinkler systems are in just about every building, experienced the same. Reasons varied from unknown, another from someone hanging a decoration to the sprayer, one from cleaning attic, and also material failure.
Floor, furniture, books, and drywall ended up as collateral damage. Make sure insurance covers false activations.
Burning that bag of popcorn or cooking the bacon a bit too long takes on a whole 'nother level of consequences!
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fire departments love residential sprinkler systems, contractors usually resist them tooth and nail. They feel it cuts into their profit margins and are a hard sale to the average buyer . It buys the home occupants time to get out before conditions get too dangerous .
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First line of defense is a good Fire Detection Alarm;
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montanajoe: 30501206279835/comments/30501231825563
First line of defense is a good Fire Detection Alarm;
If that starts poppin' you got serious problems.
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Having fought in urban conditions I think the best bet is to keep moving. Trying to fort up in one location doesn't work too well in modern combat. It might be better to have a secret way out like a tunnel. You give them a bloody nose then sneak out and either go to another location or attack the enemy from behind while they are focusing on the house. A fire might even be a good thing to distract their attention.
Fire is a huge risk once a building is targeted unless its made of a non-combustible material and is empty of combustible stuff.
There was is house down the road that was purchased to house old folks who have dementia. They had to put a fire suppression system in the house and it was a big deal.
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Government siege it's not going make much difference as they aren't leaving. Attacked by a mob the longer you can hold out, inflict damage back and make them expend resources the better your chances of survival.
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