Anyone seen a 22LR do this in a revolver before?
Just looking for answers. Not really sure how this might have happened. Sending it back in for its second "repair". Fired in a S&W 617. Bought brand new in February. Posted this to a number of other sites but have had every vet/pro/enthusiast/expert/"I've shot over 100K 22LR rounds"/etc not know exactly what is causing this. First pick is prior to sending it in the first time. Second pic just happened. All rounds are Remi Golden Bullets. I know I can choose a different ammo. But this is what I have. I don't think guns should have to use a different ammo. But would love to hear other thoughts.
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Throw that ammo away and get some new ammo. LOOKS like the primer has way too much powder in it. I can see no other way to make the case taco, other than the primer blowing out(as is evident in some of those pics)
PS, just because you don't wanna hear it, doesn't make it false. That ammo seems to be dangerous.
22 ammo is cheap, try it and let us know.
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By the way, S&W will shoot Remington golden bullets....just not damaged or improperly made ammo!
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If you think different guns don't need different ammo, well you need to rethink... it is what is is...
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Check your ammo's "lot" numbers for recall.
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My sons and I all hunted with Identical Remington 870 Slug guns. None of them shot the Remington Sabot slugs that were suppose to have been designed for the gun. Mine shot Federal Sabot slugs best. Son #1's 870 shot Winchester Sabot slugs best and Son #3's shot Hornady sabot slugs best....
Every gun will shoot better with one ammo than another. In your case, those Golden Bullets are at the bottom of the stack in terms of quality...
Try some CCI Mini-Mags....I hunt with CCI Mini-Mags in my 617 !
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Sent an inquiry into Remi to see what they have to say about the ammo. I do know that different guns like different ammo. My son shoots biathlon competitively. We tested his Anschutz for a particular lot number. My gripe is a plinking revolver should be able to shoot anything. Maybe it is what is.
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I don't see any way that a revolver defect could cause that hull damage. IMHO you have some faulty(probably dangerous) ammo. Go buy a NEW box of Remington golden bullets if that's what you wanna shoot. I do not believe the gun is at fault. Picky guns do not suffer catastrophic damage when using diff brands of ammo, they just are inaccurate or unreliable.
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Have no clue to the cause but it sure looks dangerous.
Got any powder burns?
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Once you try NEW ammo, make sure to post your results!
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Will do mike55
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That could be caused by a couple of things. The ammo would be my first guess. The other culprit could be out of spec chambers. If the cartridges aren't seating properly and the rims supported you could get that problem. I haven't seen that happen in a revolver but I have seen similar results from semi autos. A really dirty 10/22 produced a case that looked just like yours at the range of the gun shop I worked at. My guess is that it fired when it was just slightly out of battery and the rim wasn't fully supported. If different ammo gives the same results, I would send both the gun and the ruptured cases back to S&W. Good luck. Bob
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I once saw 22lr cases like that come out of 22 WMR chamber.
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Mobuck: 30432385069211/comments/30432371222427
I once saw 22lr cases like that come out of 22 WMR chamber.
Now THAT is a perfectly logical explanation! @Mobuck
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Thanks. I'm well known for logical if somewhat less than perfect.
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I can't quite wrap my head around how the cartridge can deform like that. Can someone spell it out?
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Mobuck: 30432385069211/comments/30432371222427
I once saw 22lr cases like that come out of 22 WMR chamber.
That does seem like a possibility !!!!!!
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A 617 isn't magnum, that would be a 648.
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I wonder if the chamber is not lining up with the barrel causing a pressure spike and collapsing the case.
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Why is the lead still in that one case? That's what got me. Even if the cylinder wasn't lined up, that lead would have been destroyed. 22wmr would seem the most likely, maybe they just think it is a 617.
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It does appear to be a chamber issue. Only slugging the chambers will eliminate this as the problem.
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NeoBlackdog: 30432385069211/comments/30432356492187
I can't quite wrap my head around how the cartridge can deform like that. Can someone spell it out?
If the rim blows out next to the case the gas from the burning powder flows out along the case in the chamber. The expanding gas crushes the case. At least that is what I figured happened in the customers 10/22. As for the one that still has a bullet, even if most of the gas escaped that way you would think the bullet would still separate from the case. This is a bit of a head scratcher. Bob
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The OP needs to send this back to S&W WITH all the deformed spent ammo casings. I personally would try fresh new ammo just to eliminate the possibility of a defective batch of ammo.
That being said, after reading everyone's comments.....I do believe it could be a chamber issue. BUT it is hard to believe that S&W let it go out TWICE with that much extra space in the cylinder however. That is a VERY easy fix for S&W if the chamber is the issue.
Never seen this before so hopefully the OP will post the answer once he/she has it.
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BobJudy: 30432385069211/comments/30432384872091
https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11355658#Comment_11355658
If the rim blows out next to the case the gas from the burning powder flows out along the case in the chamber. The expanding gas crushes the case. At least that is what I figured happened in the customers 10/22. As for the one that still has a bullet, even if most of the gas escaped that way you would think the bullet would still separate from the case. This is a bit of a head scratcher. Bob
That makes sense, but some of the cases look to be intact at the rim but are still collapsed... As you said, a head scratcher.
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The bullet resists forward movement. The case is unsupported. The gas seeks the easiest escape route. Some cases may have thin spots or be a bit softer than others so the folded rim blows out before the bullet moves releasing the gas alongside the case--crushing it.
It's also possible that a bullet (or 2) didn't exit the muzzle so a quick look in the bore might be worthwhile.
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Ronnie Milsap can see that gun is not safe to hold in the hand and experiment with.
I would think about protecting my eyes. That gun Might be a good canditate for ebay parts.
Tie it to a tree and stand way back maybe inside the house and/or wear a flak jacket inside the house when pulling on a long wire to trip the hammmer.
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I'd first check the fit/finish of the extractor and cylinder interface, along with headspace to the recoil shield. Also confirm proper barrel/cylinder alignment with a range rod.
Even so, like others, I suspect over-pressure or bad brass.......as looking at the middle case, I think I see the faint outline of the extractor thickness on the lower portion of the case wall. Case rupture appears to be at the extractor rear edge.
Why there's a bullet in one case.........beats the hell out of me......unless the barrel was already full..........of BULLETS. 🤔
It would be wild if it was a 22WMR cylinder. 😵💫
(Edit: I don't recall if the 617 has a limited firing pin travel.....but I'll ask anyway. Has the revolver been "dry-fired" much?)
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OK, I think I figured out what happened. Each picture must show cases from ONE cylinder, rather than a few random incidents. When the case rim blew, high pressure bled into the adjoining chambers at the rims and collapsed the cases, which were already fired. Except in the one with a bullet, where pressure grooved the case. The thing is, my 617 has counter-sunk rims to prevent something like this from happening.
Anyway, it is an ammo issue. There are black smudges near the rims where the gas bled past. It is very rare to have a case head burst, but if any ammo would do it, it would be Remington.
Edit: I just read the other answers and Bob nailed it.
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Rimfire cases are a balloon head type case. Balloon head type cases were also made in centerfire cases up until the 40's or so, up until manufacturers started using cases made with solid, rather than formed brass. These balloon head type of cases were prone to rupture, and the reason that companies recessed their cylinders to help add some safety in case of such an event. S&W quit recessing their cylinders on magnum ammo chamberings in the early 80's, but continue to do so on their rimfire guns. Some companies use a raised edge/rim around the outside of the cylinder for this protection, but S&W recesses each individual chamber instead. With the 6 shot models there is some real estate between recesses, but with the 10 shot cylinders being so crowded, the recessing is now open to the adjacent chamber, possibly allowing gas from a ruptured head to flow into an adjacent cylinder. This was one of the reasons that S&W quit making aluminum cylinders. I would guess that the O/P has a 10 shot cylinder and some bad ammo. I'd try some different ammo before sending it back to the mothership again. JMO, YMMV.
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Cases get "troughed" like that when there is greater pressure outside the case than inside. A rim failure in one chamber can introduce enough gas into adjacent cylinders that the unfired cartridges in them can be collapsed. In rare instances in a semi-auto, there can be sufficient gas pressure around the case that when the bullet exits the muzzle and barrel pressure plummets, the case can be collapsed as it is being extracted.
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@...: 30432385069211/comments/30432372242459
Ronnie Milsap can see that gun is not safe to hold in the hand and experiment with.
I would think about protecting my eyes. That gun Might be a good canditate for ebay parts.
Tie it to a tree and stand way back maybe inside the house and/or wear a flak jacket inside the house when pulling on a long wire to trip the hammmer.
But what if the squirrel moves?
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